March 25, 2025
The Role of Doulas in Black Maternal Health: Podcast Episode #283
Kristin Revere and Dana Sherrod discuss the role of doulas in Black Maternal Health in the latest episode of Ask the Doulas Podcast. Dana Sherrod, MPH, is Co-Founder and Executive Director of the California Coalition for Black Birth Justice.
Hello, hello! This is Kristin with Ask with Doulas, and I am thrilled to chat with Dana Sherrod today. Dana is the co-founder and executive director of the California Coalition for Black Birth Justice, a statewide organization that is committed to strengthening and unifying the Black birth justice movement in California.
Dana has led a series of racial equity initiatives with governments, hospitals, and healthy systems, most recently Cherished Futures for Black moms and babies, a multisector hospital quality improvement initiative to reduce Black infant and maternal health inequities in Los Angeles County.
In previous roles, Dana spearheaded the launch of a statewide mental health advocacy and prevention program for Black women across the state as part of the CDPH California Reducing Disparities Project and has championed land use policies to improve the built environment in Los Angeles neighborhoods of color.
Dana holds a masters of public health from San Jose State University, where she also teaches as adjunct faculty and serves on the board of directors at the Institute for Public Strategies. Her work has been highlighted in publications such as the Los Angeles Times, NBC, KCET, California Matters, and Black Enterprise.
She is a proud Los Angeles native and a recent transplant to the inland empire where she lives with her husband, their two young daughters, and their dog Karma.
Welcome, Dana!
Thank you so much, Kristin! It’s really cool to be here and just have the time to spend connecting and just chatting today.
What an impressive background! I don’t know how you have time for all of it!
Thank you so much! I appreciate it.
Between teaching and leading and speaking – so very impressive, and I know you are so passionate about Black maternal health and infant mortality. So thank you for the work you’re doing, first of all.
Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
Our topic today is all about the role of birth doulas and how they can help reduce some of the Black maternal health numbers, and certainly the infant health can be optimized with the role, not only of a birth doula, but the continuous presence of a postpartum doula as well. I mean, the Black maternal mortality rates are very disturbing in a country that has all of the technology and medicine. It makes no sense that women are dying in childbirth, especially Black women.
You’re so right about that. It is an issue in this country that has been pervasive for decades and in public health, as I’m sure many listeners are familiar. How we treat our moms and our babies who are considered among the most vulnerable in society is a very strong indication of how well we’re doing as a country overall. And it’s a really important measure that we look at. We see that moms and babies are dying. That alerts us that we have some real issues within our medical system and many systems at large.
Right, exactly. And so the work you’re doing with a combination of advocacy, working within the healthcare system, and helping hospitals to better support patients and newborns is so impressive. We really need to work on a systemic level within the system and without, so the work you’re doing, again, is so needed. Hopefully we can model this across the United States.
Thank you. It’s an exciting time to have this issue be so front and center and spotlighted nationally and such a concerted effort in many states to actually make some long-term sustainable changes. So I’m super excited about – certainly not the issue, but excited about the momentum and the willingness of so many across the country to tackle this head-on.
Absolutely. And living in Michigan, you know, Medicaid has now covered birth doulas for the last couple of years, so that has certainly made an impact. Looking at other benefits that cover doulas, especially fertility benefits like Carrot and Progeny, and a lot of these fertility companies are focused on providing this insurance to decrease the maternal mortality rate by including doulas in the support team.
Absolutely. Doulas are such an important part of the care team, really focusing on supporting laboring parents, birthing parents. Not only do we know just from patients’ experiences and their stories, but even reflected in the data, that the presence of doulas is very beneficial in terms of reducing C-section rates and so many other potentially adverse outcomes. So it’s an exciting sort of expansion of the care team. Doulas just honestly make such a huge difference in the way people experience labor, delivery, and postpartum.
Exactly. And there are different types of doulas. Community based doulas – in my area, they work based on a ZIP code, and there are also hospital doula programs and doulas who work individually or through agencies like my own or collectives, and then there are postpartum doulas and fertility doulas, so many different nonmedical support options now compared to the past.
Absolutely. It’s amazing.
So as far as our listeners and their thoughts on not only preparing for pregnancy, but the postnatal phase – what are your tips in building that team to support their wishes, not only for their birth, but in the recovery time?
I would say in my experience, so much of our medical system is really focused on the patients during pregnancy, and then in the postpartum period, we get one – potentially, one six-week follow-up, and then we’re kind of left to our own devices to figure it out, so to speak. Support is especially crucial. We know that also in the postpartum period, we do see potential for complications. So it’s really important to have, of course, not only medical care in terms of follow up, but also the social support. So we know that having family support, doula support – a combination, really – is so beneficial for the birthing parent. Typically, when people are able to have a postpartum doula – I mean, it’s such an amazing recommendation. Particularly for moms like myself, who have had two C-sections, it’s even more crucial to have support in terms of helping mom just around the home or the parent around the home with some basic – I don’t want to call it chores, but things that need to happen to keep your household running. But most importantly, to take care of Mom and to take care of baby, help Mom if she’s breastfeeding and has questions. I know a lot of our partnering doulas are also either lactation educators or lactation consultants and so can support the parent with breastfeeding, which for many folks, takes some getting used to and some adjustments. And so really having the support of both your doula and, ideally, family, whether that’s the partner or extended family who can help you around the home and really make sure that Mom is being taken care of, as well, not just the baby, but really taking care of Mom is so important. We really are pushing for how that is made accessible to many more people because all of us need it.
Exactly. And that six-week appointment is much too long to not understand if something is wrong and waiting for that appointment, and that’s where a doula who’s in the home can mention that the headache or the swelling that’s not going away is an issue. Or even the mental health concerns with understanding the different perinatal mood disorders. We are not medical, but we understand what is healthy and normal and when to seek help and can talk to other family members that are involved and make sure that they advocate for themselves so that women and babies are not going without care.
Yeah, knowing those signs and symptoms is so crucial. I like to say that my mom was my sort of unofficial doula. In the postpartum period, she really was. My mom is by training a nurse, so she definitely has some knowledge and expertise, particularly around just being on alert for warning signs. And for myself, when I had my second daughter, I had a very traumatic labor and delivery experience. It resulted in an emergency C-section but under general anesthesia. The care team was really rushing to save baby and myself. Unfortunately, ten days postpartum, I wound up developing an infection in the uterine lining. I had sort of slowly been going downhill, and I finally got to the point where I was vomiting and running a fever. I was telling my mom, oh, it’s probably the medicine that I’m taking, the pain medicine, or I probably just didn’t eat something, and she pushed me so much to go in, not only to be scheduled for an appointment, but she said, go to the emergency room. You need to go to the ER. And I am so grateful that she did because I thought it was just, like I said, maybe a bad reaction to medicine or that I had caught some sort of virus or something. And I had to be readmitted into the hospital to treat the infection, and I of course wasn’t expecting that, but it goes to show the importance of somebody who can be a second set of eyes for you, who can really be on alert for those warning signs and then just have incredible family support. I was breastfeeding, and so I had family who was – I was pumping and they would come and were basically creating a milk train of somebody coming around the clock to kind of pick up milk, and we made it work. But it really goes to show the importance of having such a strong support network and people who are really looking out for you in that really sensitive period during postpartum.
Exactly. And advocacy is important. As you mentioned with your personal story postpartum, not only during labor but also in that recovery phase. I’m glad that your mom was there, and this should certainly be a lesson for our listeners to advocate for yourself. Call and go in, because you can’t just suffer. I mean, your life depends many times on going in.
That’s right. Especially after you’ve just had a baby, you know, you’re sleep deprived, and you’re still recovering, and you don’t want to get up and get dressed and deal with the headache of going in to be seen. And often for me, at least, I know I’m usually so of the mindset that, oh, they’re just going to tell me this, and they’re going to tell me to just go home and rest. But really knowing that your body is doing so much and it’s going through so many changes still, that it is important to go in, even if something feels minor like a cough, like a persistent cough or something that just doesn’t seem like a big deal. It’s important. Kristin, you mentioned persistent headaches. It’s so important just to go to be on the safe side, to make sure that everything is okay. And it can sometimes be the matter of life and death, so it’s really crucial to seek care when we’re not sure.
Exactly. There are so many different conditions, like a retained placenta, eclampsia after delivery, and infections, as you mentioned. So it’s important to advocate. And then certainly as you mentioned with pumping and navigating being in the hospital and trying to focus on breastfeeding – luckily, you had support for your baby, but not everyone does. And some hospitals do allow the rooming in upon readmission, so I’m thankful for that, as well.
Yes, I was very fortunate. My sister, who also is an RN, made the recommendation that I be readmitted into postpartum versus med-surg, which is when folks go into the hospital, usually you’re admitted into different units, but med-surg – I would not have been allowed to bring my newborn baby. But because I was back in the postpartum wing, I was able to have my baby come stay for a little while so we could actually breastfeed, and when she wasn’t with me, I would just pump and send milk home. I had somebody coming to pick up milk. So, yeah, very important. These are the some of the challenges that we have to be mindful of when we’re talking about giving support. If the mom is deciding to breastfeed and we want to support her with that – it can be very taxing and difficult, of course, but it’s so much more helpful when you have the support of a doula or a family member who can continue to encourage you when circumstances feel overwhelming and really difficult.
Exactly. And so for our listeners who do not have a doula or don’t intend to, how can they advocate for themselves during pregnancy, delivery within the hospital system, and after they have their baby?
I think even if you don’t have a doula, I always recommend that people have someone who is an advocate or a champion or a partner. That can be your partner or the father of the child. It can be a friend. It can be a family member of some other sort. But somebody who loves you, who has your best interests in mind, and really being able to engage them in the process and the journey of going through pregnancy to labor and delivery and postpartum because I think we’re so vulnerable in these moments of growing another human and birthing another person and then recovering and allowing our bodies to recover. So we need at least one other person who can, like I said, be our second set of eyes and ears, who can maybe speak up for us when we don’t feel comfortable or when we’re unsure. Somebody who can advocate on our behalf. My mom, who always would tell me, especially after you just have a baby – so helpful, especially during discharge instructions – you get so many things that are coming your way and things to look out for and this is what you should do. It can be very overwhelming. But to have another person who can be there listening, asking questions, thinking about both you and baby, is so helpful. I think even if folks can’t – I mean, ideally, we want everybody to have a doula? We want everyone to be able to have a doula who can support them throughout the perinatal journey. But certainly having at least one other person present. And I think if that is not even an option – because sometimes we know that that’s also just not feasible – then really, it becomes us advocating for ourselves, meaning asking questions; coming to our doctor’s appointments with questions or follow-up questions; monitoring our symptoms at home so we can share it with our care team; being able to speak up if something is going in a direction that we don’t want it to. We have to then speak up and be our own advocate.
Fortunately, because this issue has been prevalent in sort of the national discourse, I think a lot more care teams are really excited to be partnering with doulas, with families, and really seeing everyone as part of a team. That’s what we hope, right? We want everybody to see this as a care team that is surrounding the mother or the person who’s giving birth. So there’s lots of ways that we would need to advocate and continue to advocate for ourselves.
Right. And you mentioned having a list of questions and being engaged and prepared in those prenatal visits, and they’re so short. You spend ten minutes with your provider at most. And so really coming with questions, jotting down any symptoms or anything that seems off, and advocating for yourself. I’m a big fan, as a birth doula, of a birth plan. So you have that conversation with your provider in pregnancy, make sure you’re on the same page. I’m not a fan of a five-page birth plan; a very short bullet point – or even the hospital birth plan. And then the nurses know how to support you, and they can walk in if there’s a shift change, and you’re not able to advocate for yourself – I know when I went through transition both times, and I had doulas with my second birth – it was hard for me to speak for myself because I was doing the work. So having something in writing about the goals and your wishes – it allows everyone to be on the same page.
Absolutely.
But I am also a big fan of – you had mentioned really being engaged in your own healthcare and monitoring things, and the Centering for Pregnancy model is an amazing way. Women are connecting with each other throughout pregnancy, and they’re monitoring their blood pressure and learning how to manage some of their pregnancy journey but also have community. I know in my area, some of that is grant-funded. We had donated to a Hispanic clinic in our area that is using the Centering for Pregnancy model, and I’m a big fan of some of those programs.
Yeah, absolutely. Prenatal models are just really so successful, I think especially when we talk about looking at addressing disparities and inequities, for Black women in particular. Prenatal is such an effective model, and we have some really cool programs out here in California, one particularly in the Bay Area, which is called Beloved Black Birth Centering. It takes the centering model and applies a uniquely Black lens and experience to the model and how patients are cared for. They’ve seen such tremendous success, especially in reducing things like the preterm birth rate. It is such a crucial way for women to have support in a group setting, be cared for by, ideally, a holistic care team that’s inclusive of doulas, ideally midwives. And certainly if medical doctors are needed, they’re integrated in that as well. But I’m also a huge fan of group prenatal care. And when you get to see it in person and the connections that women get to make with one another, it is amazing to witness.
I agree. So what else are you seeing as far as advocacy? What is coming up that isn’t being discussed?
In California – I mean, I always like to say in California, we are so fortunate. We have a legislature and governor and many other folks in elected offices who are really committed to not only sort of maternal health but just overall family health and wellbeing. So we have a lot of sort of unique opportunities. Some of the exciting things that have happened in the last several years is the expansion of Medicaid – of course, in California, we have to be so unique, and it’s MediCal here in California. So having coverage, postpartum coverage, up to 12 months. Also, those on MediCal being now able to have doula care as a covered benefit. We also in 2019 had a law passed that requires all maternity care providers to go through an implicit bias training every two years. We certainly know that a one-time training isn’t going to be the end-all, be-all for addressing the disparities, but it’s a huge leap forward in terms of at least having some foundational knowledge that is shared and required across the state. So we’ve seen some really exciting advancements on the policy front, and we have a lot more work to do. Some of our partners are working towards legislation that will allow licensure for birth centers to not be so hectic. I know we want to really be able to expand access and coverage for midwifery care because we know that that is certainly a way to improve outcomes. So trying to make sure that folks have access to these wraparound and larger, more holistic, more comprehensive services. It’s going to be really important.
And one of the things that is also really important is that not only do we pass legislation, but thinking about how to make sure it’s actually followed and enforced and that accountability is built in. Because it can look great on paper, but if there’s no accountability and transparency, then it’s for nothing. So lots of opportunities for us around accountability, transparency, requirements within the healthcare system, and also expanding coverage and access to many more services.
I am so impressed, and I agree that California is a model that we should follow as far as not only being focused on maternity advocacy, but you mentioned supporting the entire family. And certainly the maternity and paternity leave and understanding that there should be recovery time, not only after a birth, but after a loss.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
I don’t know if that’s anything that you’re working on right now, but I’ve seen some advocacy related to loss and time off and paid time off.
Yes, same. I know that there’s a couple groups on the ground here in California who are really championing for that as well, to just allow people after a loss time off and leave. Especially when you think about being further into your pregnancy journey, or if you’re right up at the end and having to actually give birth and to deliver. Your body still needs time to recover. You’re still producing milk a lot of times. So just addressing those instances of loss and how we navigate that.
Well, we’ll have to have you on again, but I would love to hear your final thoughts or tips that you’d like to share with our listeners, Dana.
Yeah, this has been so fun. It’s always exciting when we get to spend our time talking about things that we’re passionate about, which is, for me, families and mothering and birthing and all the things. I think a couple things is, one, we always like to encourage people to really follow along and get connected to our work. Black maternal health in particular is a challenge because we see inequities and differences in outcomes for Black women compared to women of other races and ethnicities. And sometimes it’s easy to think, well this doesn’t affect me, but it does. It honestly affects all of us. So we really feel like everyone has to be knowledgeable and engaged because when we improve things for Black women and folks who are being most harmed, we make improvements where everyone benefits in terms of improved care and processes in the healthcare system. So we definitely encourage folks to get engaged with the work, not only that we’re doing here in California, but also wherever they are. In a good amount of states, there’s so much work that’s happening to address this issue. Certainly, getting connected to organizations, Black-led organizations in your local area, and following and supporting their work.
And then following along with what’s happening in your state in the legislature. What policies are on the table, or what is being considered and how you can support things? Sometimes we forget that all of us have the opportunity to be advocates. All of us have the opportunity to raise our voices for what matters to us, and if we care about moms and babies and families and safety, we want to make sure that that is reflected in our laws and in our policies. So following along. Everything is public. It’s required to be public. So following along with what’s happening in the state legislature and certainly writing or calling, engaging your elected officials, is always a crucial step, as well. So I always feel like those are two good places to start.
And then, of course, continuing to be educated. Platforms like this and so many others help parents, whether they’re already in a parenting journey or want to be a parent someday. I think it’s so helpful when you can start to learn and gain knowledge and tools and resources to support yourself and your loved ones as early as possible. So certainly continuing to gain that education and the knowledge is very important and very helpful as well.
I agree! Dana, how can our listeners connect with you?
The California Coalition for Black Birth Justice – we can be found on a lot of social platforms, but especially Instagram and LinkedIn. It’s @cablackbirthjustice. We’re also on our website. Folks can sign up to join our email list. That is always a great way to be connected. We share things out through our social channels and through our email listserv. Of course, should they feel led to support this work, especially in the current climate that we’re facing, by putting their dollars where their heart is, if you will – there’s ways to donate on our website, as well. If not to us, we certainly encourage folks to donate to local Black-led organizations that are doing great work in their area.
That is so important. I agree. It’s not just advocacy, but our dollars make a big difference in today’s climate. Thank you for the work you’re doing, Dana, and we’ll have to have you on again!
Thank you so much, Kristin. This was so much fun, and I really appreciate the opportunity!
IMPORTANT LINKS
California Coalition for Black Birth Justice
Birth and postpartum support from Gold Coast Doulas