gold coast doulas

Alyssa talks to Chris Emmer, a past sleep and postpartum doula client, about transitioning her daughter to a “big kid bed.”  Alyssa gives tips on shortening the bedtime routine and getting the child involved and excited about sleep!  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes or SoundCloud.

Alyssa:  Hi.  Thanks for joining us today on the Ask the Doulas Podcast.  I am Alyssa Veneklase, co-owner of Gold Coast Doulas.  I am a certified postpartum doula, newborn care specialist, and certified infant and child sleep consultant.  Today, we’ll be talking to Chris Emmer.  She is a past sleep client of mine and also a doula client of ours.

Chris:  Hi, Alyssa.

Alyssa:  Hi, Chris.  How are you?

Chris:  How’s it going?

Alyssa:  Good.

Chris:  Oh, my gosh.  I just got Sam down for her nap.  It’s such perfect timing that we’re going to talk about this right now.

Alyssa:  Well, let’s dive right in.  I know both of us, our time is limited.  She’s taking one nap a day, right?

Chris:  Oh, yeah.  She’s down to one.  She’s been a one-napper for a while.

Alyssa:  And she’s just two?

Chris:  Yeah.  She’ll be two and a half, actually, in, like, a matter of weeks here.

Alyssa:  Oh, my gosh.  Like, when did that happen?  That seems crazy.

Chris:  I know.  The shortest time.  It feels like a hundred years and one day, all at the same time.

Alyssa:  I bet!  So tell me what’s happening.  So since I’m recording, I’ll just update the listeners that you texted a while ago and were like, okay, you know, one of those asking for a friend — what do you do when your two-year-old is climbing out of bed or the crib?  So you had to transition her from crib to big bed recently?

Chris:  Yes, absolutely.

Alyssa:  And it hasn’t been going well?

Chris:  No.  It has not.  It’s been going fine, but it’s been a surprising transition that I was, like, wait, what?  I thought we figured out sleep.

Alyssa:  Well, it’s a different ballgame.  You have a toddler now with a little voice and an opinion, and yeah, it makes things a little more difficult.  I mean, typically, I like to keep a baby — or she’s not a baby anymore, but a toddler — in a crib until they’re three for, probably what we’re going to find out, is all the reasons that are driving you crazy, like they don’t have any impulse control, so they will just get out of bed, and then it turns into this really fun game for them to keep popping in and out of bed.  But then at that age, too, they might not understand the rules, and it might be hard to give them some rewards.  We’ll talk about some of the things that I suggest.  But, yeah, what do you find is your most difficult aspect of transitioning?

Chris:  The put-down has become a very long process.

Alyssa:  Like the whole bedtime routine?

Chris:  The whole bedtime routine.  It’s off the rails.  With the crib, it had gotten so deliciously easy where, I mean, read some books, put her in the crib, walk out, you’re all good.  Like, not even a peep comes out of her.  And since she’s transitioned to the big girl bed, she’s also — and I don’t know if it has anything to do with getting out of the crib and into the big girl bed, or if it’s just, you know, synchronistic timing, but she’s also developed, like, a little bit of fear of the dark, which is funny because when she was in the crib, the room was totally pitch black, and now that she’s in the big girl bed, I have got nightlights in every outlet in that room.  It’s much lighter in there.  So she just gets kind of nervous, I think, and that’s honestly the word that she uses.  She says, “I’m nervous.”

Alyssa:  Well, that crib is small and has walls and feels safe and secure, and now she’s in this big bed that maybe she’s afraid of falling out of or there’s all the — you know, it’s just a lot — it seems bigger, I’m sure.  The whole room seems bigger to her now.  But she was crawling out, right?  That’s why you —

Chris:  She sure was, and she just did it once, and I thought like, okay, well, she figured it out, but, you know, maybe we’ve got a few weeks where she won’t try it every time, and even that night, put her in the crib — two minutes later, boom, she’s out of the crib.  She’s running towards the door.  So, yeah.  It was not really an option.  It was like, okay.  Well, I can’t have her flying out of the crib.

Alyssa:  I wonder if — and you’ll know if this will work for her — a lot of times when kids aren’t ready to transition, we can put them back in one of those sleep sacks with the arms out, and then when they’re in a sleep sack, they can’t get their feet up high enough to actually climb over.  And if she’s smart enough to then unzip the sleep sack and get out of it, you can flip the sleep sack, like, backwards so the zipper is in the back and she can’t reach the zipper.

Chris:  Oh, my gosh.

Alyssa:  We’ve had to do that for some kids, but it helps.  Like, she might want to climb out of the crib, but she won’t physically be able to anymore.

Chris:  Right.

Alyssa:  I don’t know if you think that would work for her.

Chris:  She’s such a physical little lady that I think that she would go nuts if she was, like —

Alyssa:  If her legs were restricted?

Chris:  Yeah.  Yeah.  And then the other thing is that, you know, we’ve got our next kid coming in, like, end of May, beginning of June, so it kind of feels like it’s inevitable that we have to do this transition, and I’d almost rather get it done with without also having a newborn to try to wrangle, you know?  So it’s a little bit like, dang, this day — I knew it would come.  And also, like, well, it’s kind of good timing.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  Well, we don’t want to force it just because a baby’s coming.  Like, we could wait until — you know, baby’s not here until May or June.  You could wait until spring.  Maybe — you know, do you think Sam would understand if you asked her, okay, I know you’re nervous. Would it make you feel better to sleep in your crib again?  And even if you have it, like, completely torn apart and put away and the big bed up, like, you could put that crib in the nursery with the big bed temporarily again.  I just wonder how she would respond if you said, you know, it makes me sad that you’re nervous in the dark.  How do you feel about sleeping in your crib again, but you have to stay in the crib.

Chris:  Right.

Alyssa:  I don’t know.  It’s just so hard at this age.  Like, it totally depends on the kid.  Like, she might get that and be like, yes.  Yes.  I like that idea.  Put me back in the crib.  Or she might just look at you with a blank stare and be like, what are you trying to ask me here, lady?  You’re trying to reason with me?  Come on.  I’m two and a half!

Chris:  I think she’s a little bit of the, what are you trying to do here, lady.  But she is making progress with it.  It’s been, I don’t know, a month, maybe.  And it is getting easier.  Bedtime’s getting shorter.  She had a little bit where she — probably like a week or so where I would say three out of four nights of the week, she would wake up in the middle of the night and be awake and freaking out, and we would have to go get her, hang out with her for, like, an hour and then put her back down.  She’s gotten over that waking in the middle of the night part, and I think she’s — I can tell she’s proud of herself.  Things that have kind of worked are teaching her about, like, if you get nervous, take a deep breath.  That has worked, and then I have been toying with a reward chart, like a sticker chart, and she seems excited about it.  We have yet to put a single sticker on the chart.  So I don’t know, is she too young for something like that?

Alyssa:  Well, that’s a good segue into — okay, so I have the four Rs, and they’re kind of like your superpower for dealing with kids in big beds who want to pop out like Sam.  So the four Rs are rules, rewards, roleplay, and then returns.  So rules are just that.  Like, you can create a chart, but get her involved with it.  So if she likes stickers; if she wants a new doll — like, you could create a chart for a week, and once she gets a sticker on every day of that week, she gets to pick out something.  Or, you know, she really loves donuts, and she doesn’t get them that often.  You know, something that makes her super excited.  But then the rules have to be really simple.  Like, three of them.  Like, okay, Sam, let’s say the rules together.  One, stay in bed.  Two, be quiet.  Three, close your eyes.  But you can also make it fun.  Like, okay, what kind of animal is quiet, and what kind of animal is loud?  We don’t want to be the loud animal.  We want to be the quiet animal in bed.  You know, just think — and you know her best.  Like, you know what will trigger her little brain to be excited about this.  And like you said, we want her to wake up and be so proud that she did it.  And, again, the problem with doing this before three years old is she might need immediate gratification, and the reward chart just does not do it for her.  So she’s like, I did something good, but I have to wait all night for it, and then in the morning, I don’t even care anymore.

Chris:  Yeah.

Alyssa:  So that might be the tricky thing is, you know, just, you got to kind of work it to whatever works best for your own kid.  But if she lays in bed quiet and says the rules — you say the rules to her, and you leave, even if it takes her 20 minutes to fall asleep, if she’s lying there quiet and not getting out of bed and not being disruptive, let her.  Like, we want her to know her bed is not scary.  It’s a safe place.  So do whatever you have to do to figure out what’s making her nervous.  I also caution you about putting nightlights all over the room because we don’t want it bright in there.  That triggers her brain to stay awake instead of get sleepy.  So we don’t want it too bright in there.  So, yeah, maybe just come up with some rules and have her help you with them.  And then the rewards is kind of the second part of that, so it’s a positive consequence for following the rules, whatever those rules you made up are.  And if she hasn’t gotten a sticker yet, maybe the rules need to start a little easier.  Like, okay, the rules are, we brush our teeth.  We put on PJs.  We read one book.  And you need to kind of set a time limit because you don’t want to have to do this for an hour every night.  Make it very clear.  You get one book, one song, and five kisses or something.  Then I leave.  And if you say, then I leave, you really need to leave.

Chris:  Yes.  And don’t let her extend it.

Alyssa:  Right, because they’re so good at that!

Chris:  They’re geniuses!  For the sticker chart thing, you had said in your example, like, stay in bed, be quiet, and something else that was nighttime related…

Alyssa:  Yeah.  Close your eyes.

Chris:  Yeah.  Close your eyes.  So would you keep them all, like, in the same category?  Because what I’m doing right now — let me read to you my current reward chart.  Okay.  It’s a little all over the map.  One is picking up her toys.  Zero stickers.  One is staying in bed.  Again, zero stickers.  One is saying please and thank you.  Zero stickers.  And then another one is going potty.  So, I mean, it’s like everything that I want her to do.  I was just like, let’s put it on here.  So maybe I need to get more…

Alyssa:  Maybe focus it on just sleep right now.  Like, to be transitioning to a big girl bed and potty training and learning manners and all the things at once — I would just stick to sleep until she gets this figured out.  You don’t want to do rewards forever.  You want to give her a few weeks when she’s doing good, and then you get rid of the sleep rewards, and that would be helpful to then move on to, okay, now you get potty rewards.  You know what I mean?  And then once she’s going on the potty, now let’s work on your manners and cleaning up.  So we’re going to sing the clean-up song and you’re going to say please and thank you, and you’re going to help Mommy and whatever other manners you want.  But it might just be too overwhelming for her because it is kind of all over the place.

Chris:  Yeah.  Definitely.  I think she just is like, okay, whatever.  Sticker chart, I don’t get it.  Doesn’t mean anything to me.  Thanks, though.

Alyssa:  Well, and if the sticker chart doesn’t work, maybe — you know, what else could work for her?  What does she get super excited about?  Is it Skittles?  Like, you could give her two Skittles that day if she does something.  I don’t know.

Chris:  Right.  Like, she loves cookies.  Maybe she gets, like, to go pick out a big cookie from the bakery or something.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  Something that she can’t stop talking about, because you know they get something on their brain and then they tell everybody.  You want her to be like, I’m going to get a cookie if I stay in bed all night.  And you’re like, yes.  You will.

Chris:  Yeah.

Alyssa:  So if stickers don’t do it for her, then figure out what does.  And then when she does do it, like the first night she does it, make her feel like a rock star.  High fives, hugs, you’re so great, you did such a good job, I’m so proud of you.  You know, you’re going to be a big sister, and you’re going to be the greatest big sister because you’re going to be able to show this baby how we sleep like a big kid.  And that will be really helpful, too, when new baby does come and you’ll have to explain to her, you know, you’re going to hear your little brother or sister crying in the night.  They’re okay, but, you know, don’t go check on them.  Don’t mess around.  Don’t talk.  Just stay in your own bed and sleep, and then we need you to be the good big sister and show baby how we sleep through the night.  Just so that she doesn’t — because she’s going to feel left out no matter what.  She’s used to getting all your attention, and now baby’s going to get most of your attention for a while.  Bedtime routine at that point will be a big deal for her.  You and your husband will want to make sure you have a dedicated, like — while one of you is with the baby, someone has to have a dedicated time with Sam where it’s only focused on her because she’s going to feel like she doesn’t get that anymore for a while.  You know how hard it is in that newborn stage.  They just need you 100% of the time.

Chris:  Right.  I know.  Bedtime is one of the things I feel most nervous about.  Like, I can’t even wrap my brain around putting two kids down at the same time.  So it feels important to get her sleeping good, and I feel like this is — you know, we’ve got some time still.  So I feel like it’s kind of working out, slowly but surely.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  And it will.  You do have time.  I think, again, like, when we were doing sleep training when she was a baby, consistency is still key.  Like, you have to make the rules, and you can’t stray from those because especially now, they know how to push, and I know that if I ask for X, Y, and Z, and Mom’s going to get it every time, then of course I’m going to ask for these things every night.  And she might be a little mad at first, but she’ll get over it.

Chris:  Yeah.  Stick to your guns.  You don’t think she’s ready to drop that nap, do you?

Alyssa:  I don’t think so.  At two — most — I mean, if she’s not tired at night or waking super early in the morning, that’s kind of when you know they’re ready to drop the nap.  She needs — you know, let’s say she needs 14 hours of sleep in a 24-hour period.  So that’s 12 hours at night and a 2-hour nap.  Now, as we get older, we kind of need less and less sleep.  You know, I think most toddlers through teenagers, even, still need 10, 11 hours of sleep.  So school-aged kids are not getting enough sleep when parents just tell them they need 8.  They still need 11.  My almost 8-year-old daughter gets 11 hours of sleep at night.  She needs it.  But when you notice Sam is just either not tired for that nap or when you give her a nap, she refuses to go to sleep on time, or she goes to sleep on time but starts waking up at 5:00 in the morning, she’s just getting too much sleep.  So instead of eliminating the nap altogether, you could drop it down from 2 hours to 1 hour and see if that helps.  And then, you know, maybe in the next 6 to 12 months, you could try dropping it.  There’s going to be a period of transition where some days, she’ll need it, and some days, she won’t, and that’s totally fine.

Chris:  She goes to school two days a week, and there, she will take a nap like a champion.  Her teachers are like, oh, she laid right down and put herself to sleep.

Alyssa:  Of course she did!

Chris:  Like, what?  How did you do that?  Teach me your ways!  And one of the things that they do at school is they have a sticker chart.  That’s where I picked up that thought because I was like, what’s working for you?  Please tell me!  Tell me all your secrets!  So they do the sticker chart, and then when they get, like, five stickers, they get to pick out a reward.  So maybe that’s like — she came home with a pink sparkly bracelet one day, and she thought she was the coolest girl in the world.

Alyssa:  Oh, maybe you buy, like, a little treasure box for her that she knows she gets to look in and pick something.  You know, that way it’s, like, there in the house; she can see it, and she knows she gets to dive into that treasure box every Sunday.  So she has to, you know, Monday through Saturday, has to get a sticker on the chart, and then on Sunday morning, she gets to choose a little prize from the treasure box.  That’s a good idea.

Chris:  I feel like she would be so geeked about that, like if she could see it and know there was, like, treasures inside.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  I wonder if you could even find, like, a clear little locking — I’m almost picturing, like, what looks like a makeup case or something.

Chris:  Like a Caboodle?

Alyssa:  Yes!  A clear Caboodle filled with sparkly toys.  That’s a great idea.

Chris:  That would also just be so fun for me to put together!

Alyssa:  Right?  It would be, like, the cutest thing ever!

Chris:  No, I think that that would really work for her, though!  And, like, the reminder of being able to see it would be, I think, enough to keep it top of mind for her that, like, we’re going to work towards this.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  Be a good incentive for her.

Chris:  Interesting!

Alyssa:  Yeah.  So maybe try that!

Chris:  I will!

Alyssa:  So the third R is roleplay, and this could work well for her if she, you know, has, like, a favorite stuffed animal or doll.  Like, you would use roleplay with that little stuffed animal and put them to bed.  So you’d kind of do a little condensed version of your bedtime routine with the stuffed animal.  So you could say, let’s make rules for — you know, my daughter has a teddy bear named Fuzzy.  So let’s set some sleep rules for Fuzzy.  Let’s put him to sleep and then give him a kiss, sing him a song, and then you kind of just close the door and go out into the hallway and wait.  And then you just wait a couple seconds and say, okay, I think he’s sleeping.  Let’s go check on him now.  That, in her mind, triggers, oh, I think when I go to sleep, Mom and Dad might be waiting out in the hallway, like, checking on me, and that makes them feel comfortable, even if you’re not out there.  And then you go in and say, oh, good job.  You know, Fuzzy’s sleeping.  Let’s put a sticker.  You could even make a little chart for the stuffed animal and give the little stuffed animal a sticker on their chart.  And, again, you know Sam best.  Maybe that works for her; maybe it doesn’t.  But it’s worth a try.

Chris:  Yeah.  I love that!

Alyssa:  And if you don’t make a chart, you could put a little sticker right on the stuffed animal’s hand, like right then and there, and be like, oh, my gosh.  It’s so great!  And then in the morning when Sam wakes up, you can say, okay, let’s go check on the stuffed animal, too, and see how they did.  And you just make it silly and fun, whatever — and they also kind of feel like they’re in charge, then, of this little stuffed animal’s sleep schedule.  And most two-and-a-half-year-olds like to be bossy, so…

Chris:  I think she would love that.  I think she would be so into it.  That’s a really fun one.

Alyssa:  So maybe you could make, like, a little sleep corner for the doll or stuffed animal.

Chris:  Yeah.  She does have a little crib for her babies.

Alyssa:  Oh, perfect.

Chris:  I love that.  Good one!

Alyssa:  And then the fourth one is returns.  So when you say in the middle of the night she wakes up and needs your help and you’re in there for an hour, you know,  you kind of want to — we don’t want to be in there for an hour, but you also don’t want to do the bedtime routine for an hour, so everything needs to be super quick.  Like, remember when she was a baby and we would just kind of let her fuss it out, but we would always go check on her.  But the check-ins were, like, super quick.  They’re quiet.  No talking.  We’re not there to entertain her, and especially now toddlers love attention.  So if she knows, okay, I’m nervous.  I’m scared.  I woke up in the middle of the night.  We obviously want to go comfort her.  But we also want her to know that you’re not going to lay there with her for an hour at 4:00 in the morning because you’re exhausted, too.  So it would be more of, like, going — whether she got out of bed and came to you or was just crying in her bed, you could go — you know, you could go lay down with her for a second, or not even lay down; just, like, lean on — kneel on the floor and shush her or something.  Like, you don’t even need to talk.  Just shush, give her a kiss, rub her hair, and then say, okay, it’s time to sleep.   Remember your sleep rules.  And then leave.  So you want to be in and out really quick again.  And she’s old enough to understand, like — and you can tell her, like, Mommy and Daddy are tired, too.  I need to go to sleep.  So you definitely don’t want to do — and you said she’s kind of over that, but hopefully she’s done, but if she did that again — but then just kind of apply that same thing, too.  If you put her in bed and then she pops right back out and you’re watching TV and all of a sudden there’s a little pitter-patter of feet behind you, just do it really silently and quickly.  And you don’t want to say — you want to keep it positive, if you do say anything.  You don’t want to say, oh, you got out of bed.  You don’t get a sticker.  You don’t want to say anything negative or talk about consequences at all.  Don’t remind them that they won’t get a sticker.  They just won’t get one in the morning, but we don’t want them to get all upset in the middle of the night, which makes it harder for them to go to bed.

Chris:  Interesting.  Yeah.  So have it be just a positive reinforcement but don’t, like, rub it in?

Alyssa:  Yeah.

Chris:  Like, well, there goes your sticker for the week.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  And I find myself doing that.  You know, my daughter can take forever getting ready for school, and I’m like, you’re this close to losing your iPad.  And then all of a sudden she’s crying, and here I am, I’ve got five minutes to get her out the door, and I just messed everything up because now I have to say, oh, I’m sorry, and console her, and now she’s crying and all upset, and she has to go out the door crying, and then I feel awful all day.  And I’m like, why did I just do that?  You know, like, I can talk to her after school about listening better.  It’s the same thing in the middle of the night.  We’re tired.  We’re furstrated.  They’re not listening to us.  And we’re like, you just lost your sticker.  And kind of get upset, and then they’re crying because they can hear that we’re upset, and they just lost a sticker so they’re sad.  So it’s not that you won’t do it ever, but just try to keep it in your mind.  Just try to keep it positive.  Like, I know you can do this.  You’re a big girl.  You can go to sleep.  I don’t know if that helps.

Chris:  That does help a ton.  And yeah, I’m sure there will be times where I’ll slip up and accidentally bring it up.

Alyssa:  None of us are perfect.  That’s why I try not to be too hard on myself.  But, gosh, sometimes it’s hard.  Do you think a sleep training clock would work for her?  Would she, like, understand a light turning on at a certain time?

Chris:  Okay.  So we do have one of those, the Okay to Wake clock, and I set it so that — well, it was right before daylight savings time, and I set it so that it would turn green at 7:00 a.m.  And since daylight savings time, she’s been awake much earlier, so like 6:00-ish, and she wakes up just kind of like — I don’t know.  It feels like she wakes up and thinks, like, what the heck?  Like, where am I?  What’s going on?  Got to find Mom.  And so I am up anyways, and I’ll just open her door and let her come out, but I’ve been thinking about how I can get her to stay in her bed longer.

Alyssa:  So when the time changed, did you adjust her schedule?

Chris:  We did.

Alyssa:  And it just didn’t really click?

Chris:  We’ve just been in a little bit of a funky timing thing where bedtime started taking a lot longer, so even though we start it at the same time, it would take her longer to fall asleep.  And then you would think that that would make her sleep in later, but of course, it has worked the opposite and she’s been getting up earlier.

Alyssa:  Well, that could be a sign, too, then, of that maybe you just need to try shortening that nap.

Chris:  Yeah.

Alyssa:  And maybe that will push your morning out a little bit.  So she’s normally getting two, and you could even ask, you know, at school — how long does she nap at school?

Chris:  Like, an hour.  An hour and a half at the very most.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  Maybe ask them to —

Chris:  And same at home, too.

Alyssa:  — get her up after an hour and see if that helps.

Chris:  Yeah.

Alyssa:  Or 45 minutes, if she’s normally doing an hour.

Chris:  It’s just so terrifying to wake up a sleeping child.

Alyssa:  Do it slowly!  Go in gently.  I mean, even with a baby, you know, you would just kind of slowly maybe turn the lights on dim and sit on the bed and rub her back or something and slowly wake her up.  Doesn’t need to be loud and abrupt with glaring lights in her face.

Chris:  Interesting.  On one day of the week, she goes to Grandma and Grandpa’s house for the afternoon, and on those days, she generally doesn’t take a nap.

Alyssa:  Interesting.  How does she do at night those nights?

Chris:  Just a wreck.  She’s exhausted.  It’s super hard to keep her awake on the drive home, and it’s really hard to get her to bedtime.  And then bedtime just kind of falls apart because she’s so overtired.

Alyssa:  So why doesn’t she nap there?

Chris:  They just can’t get her down.  Because she’s a fighter, you know?  You got to be ready of the battle.

Alyssa:  It’s so funny.  She does it for everyone but those who are closest to her.  You know, like, she can do it at school.  Because it’s not their parents.  Like, they listen to everyone else other than parents and caregivers like relatives or whatever.  It’s just the hardest for us, and they know we love them the most, and they just push and push.  And usually we give in.

Chris:  Right.

Alyssa:  Which makes it so frustrating for us!  Yeah, so she can do it, but I get it.  If your parents don’t want to, like, even deal with that fight — but they too — I mean, if you’re going to try this, they could also have a sticker chart at their house where — you know, maybe it’s smaller things, that if she lays down and sleeps, she gets to pick out one thing from this jar when she wakes up.  So they could use their own version of that.  Because she obviously needs it.  That’s your first sign right there, when you answered, she’s a wreck.  So if she didn’t nap at all, then you would just be dealing with that every day.  I mean, she’s not ready.  Not ready to drop that yet.

Chris:  Well, that’s good for me!

Alyssa:  Even when she is ready, though, you can still make her have quiet time.  So let’s say in a year.  She’s three and a half or almost four, and she just doesn’t need to nap anymore.  When she’s at home, she just gets an hour of quiet time in her room.  So you still have that hour of reprieve, and she gets to play trucks or dolls or puzzles or color or whatever she likes to do, but she has to do that for an hour.

Chris:  And just be quiet in her room?

Alyssa:  Yep.  Just give her quiet time.  So I do have a section on a new sibling.  Expect some jealousy, like we talked about.  Well, you know, a lot of times, it’s — if the toddler’s in the crib still, they have this feeling of the new baby stealing their crib, but that shouldn’t be an issue since she’s already out of the crib.  I would just talk to her a lot about the new baby and how the baby is going to need you for a lot of things, but you’re still the big sister.  And then talk about them crying in the night.  They’re going to be hungry.  That’s why they’re crying.  They’re not sick or sad.  And that she just needs to stay in her own room in her own bed, and keep the expectations really clear.  And then, again, just keep using positive language.  Like, I know you can stay in bed because you’re such a good kid.  You’re such a big kid.  You’re a great big sister.  Just keep a lot of positive language.  And then really focus on her at bedtime.

Chris:  Yeah, and make sure to have one on one for that?

Alyssa:  Right.  That will be really important.  Do you think that they will ever — because I do have a section on siblings who share a room, and I did get asked by someone else who heard a different podcast to share some information about, like, if siblings ever share a room.  Do you think that the two of them would ever — I guess that might depend on if you have a girl or a boy?

Chris:  That’s true.  I mean, I think it’s cute, the idea of them sharing a room, but honestly, for that newborn phase, I can’t even — my brain can’t even comprehend how that would work.

Alyssa:  Well, yeah, newborn phase, usually the baby would be in your room in a pack and play or bassinet or something anyway.

Chris:  Right.

Alyssa:  But let’s hypothetically say you decide, you know, a few months in or something to move the crib into her room.  Ideally, you would put the baby to bed first and then Sam.  So, you know, by then, she — let’s say her bedtime is 7:30, but you’re going to put the baby down at 7:00.  That could be perfect.  So the baby goes down, and if you do any sort of sleep training, or let’s say you read through the plan I gave you originally, and you’re like, okay, at three months, we’re going to start doing some things.  Do that while baby’s still in your room, and then, you know, make sure that the new baby is — like, I know that after I put baby down, he or she is going to fuss for, like, 15 minutes and then fall asleep.  So that way you know, okay, once I transition — and even if — I mean, this could also work if the nursery is going to be right next to Sam’s room, like abutting walls.  It’s kind of the same as being in the same room, because she’s going to hear the baby all the time.  But you would know that I can put the baby down.  They’re going to fuss for, like, 15 minutes, but then I’m going to start at 7:30 putting Sam down, and then she’ll be asleep by 8:00.  Just keeping it really consistent and keeping her bedtime routine really consistent, but getting the baby’s out of the way.  And I think if you have to do them at the same time for some reason, you’re just going to have to divide and conquer so that she still feels like she’s got some, you know, one on one time with you.

Chris:  Yeah.

Alyssa:  I think letting her know that babies just wake up to feed, you know, especially at first, but let’s say baby’s three or four months old.  If the baby wakes up fussing, Sam will just have to know, like, it’s normal.  Leave the baby alone.  Don’t try to go do anything because then you’re going to wake the baby up more.  Just let the baby fuss back to sleep because that’s the last thing you want, to look at the monitor and Sam’s in there reading a book or singing a song or doing a whole dance routine!  Like, I know how to make the baby stop crying!  I’ll turn on some music and dance!

Chris:  I can picture it!  I can totally see it on the monitor playing out in front of my eyes!

Alyssa:  Disco ball going!

Chris:  That’s really helpful.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  Just talk to her a lot!

Chris:  I feel like we’ve got a kind of a phased plan where it’s like, okay, first, let’s get her — let’s do the rules, rewards.  And I think the roleplay thing would be really fun, too, to practice bedtime with her toys and get that going for a while until she gets really good at that.  And then we can start talking about what it’s going to be like when the baby’s here and how she can be a really good big sister and teach her sister or brother how to stay in bed and be quiet and those sorts of things.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  You could even use a baby doll and pretend.  You know, if you call your baby something right now, like pretend it’s little peanut or whatever.  And then say, let’s teach your baby brother or sister to go to sleep.  And then when baby actually arrives, you can make her a part of that process.  Like, remember how you do that?  We’re going to shush baby.  Let me swaddle the baby, and then I’m going to teach you how to help me, like, shush the baby.  And she can sit by the crib and go “shhhh” or something.  Have her be part of that, and then you slowly walk out together.  Then she’ll feel like she’s actually helping and part of this process as a big sister instead of just feeling left out.

Chris:  Yeah.  Totally.  I could see her feeling really cool being, like, a part of the mom squad.

Alyssa:  Heck, yeah!

Chris:  Awesome.  This is really helpful, Alyssa.

Alyssa:  Well, thank you for doing this!

Chris:  Thank you for all your wisdom!

Alyssa:  Yeah.  You know I’m always here!

Chris:  I know how you knew the asking for a friend thing…

Alyssa:  I’m like, wait.  Is Sam two?  Are you asking about your own child?  It literally kind of took me back a minute.  I’m like, no way she’s two!

Chris:  Let’s just say someone has a kid who isn’t sleeping.  What would one do?

Alyssa:  Hypothetically… Well, cool.  It was so good to talk to you, and congrats again.  I’m super excited for you.

Chris:  Thank you so much.  I’m going for that VBAC this time.

Alyssa:  Awesome.  Before you go, I can give you a little shoutout.  Are you still doing both Biz Babysitters and Sweaty Wisdom or neither or one or the other?

Chris:  I am actually doing both.  Sweaty Wisdom had a name change, and now we’re Mindful Social Co.  So we made a little switch, but still doing that, and then Biz Babysitters had been kind of on hold, but my fire has been reignited with this pregnancy, because I’m like, God, I’m in it right now.  I know exactly what this feels like.  So that’s back in biz, too.

Alyssa:  You learned from last time what you need this time.

Chris:  Yeah.  Exactly.  So it’s fun to strategize on that.

Alyssa:  Cool.  Awesome.

Chris:  Thanks so much!

If you have any sleep questions or would like to inquire about a sleep consultation with Alyssa Veneklase, these can be done via phone and text not only with local West Michigan families, but families all over the country.  Contact us here!

 

 

Today Kristin and Alyssa talk about some interesting, and funny, and gross things that happened to their bodies during pregnancy and birth that were a bit unexpected!  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes or SoundCloud.

 

Alyssa:  Hi and welcome to the Ask the Doulas podcast.  I am Alyssa Veneklase, co-owner of Gold Coast Doulas, and I am here with my business partner, Kristin, the other owner.

Kristin:  Hello!

Alyssa:  Hey.  So we had a podcast a while ago where we talked about things we wished we would have known postpartum.  And then we decided to talk about things we wish we would have known about pregnancy and just kind of talk about some of the weird experiences that we went through personally.  Maybe some funny things, maybe some gross things; who knows.  But yeah, what was your pregnancy like?  You had two.

Kristin:  Yes.  So with my daughter Abby, I had a pretty easy pregnancy up until 37 weeks.  My midwife used to call it the perfect pregnancy up until I got preeclampsia.  But yeah, I didn’t gain a whole lot of weight.  I wasn’t — I mean, I had a lot of nausea.

Alyssa:  Like, just in the beginning, or the whole time?

Kristin:  All of my pregnancy.  I was driving to Lansing every day for work, and I would pull over — I would plan out my day so I left really early because I would need to pee, so I would stop at the rest stop near Portland or, like, actually pull into a grocery store in Portland and use the bathroom because I could never make it the whole way to Lansing, and I also needed to walk around.  My legs just didn’t do that well driving and would get kind of tingly and needed to move.

Alyssa:  And that’s only an hour drive from here, right?

Kristin:  About an hour — depending on traffic, yeah.  An hour-ish.

Alyssa:  So in an hour to an hour and a half’s time, you couldn’t sit for that long or go that long without peeing?

Kristin:  And there were multiple times that I would have to pull over and throw up on the highway.  And that was part of it is I was so nauseous driving or being in a car, and there were times that I remember going to a friend’s party in the summer, and Patrick — I had him pull over and I threw up on the road.

Alyssa:  On the way to a party?

Kristin:  Yeah.  Yeah.

Alyssa:  So was that all day long, every hour to an hour and a half, you would have to get up and pee or you’d feel nauseous or you had to move your legs?

Kristin:  Mm-hmm.

Alyssa:  That’s tiring.

Kristin:  Yeah.

Alyssa:  But you still consider it a perfect pregnancy?  Like, it wasn’t…

Kristin:  I had nauseas.  Yeah.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  Wasn’t that bad.

Kristin:  And then toward the end of my pregnancy, I also had the restless leg syndrome, so I would get up in the middle of the night and have to, like, hop on one foot and wake Patrick up because my cramping in my leg was so intense.  But I’ve always had vein problems with the circulation in my legs, so…

Alyssa:  So that was probably a circulation issue?  While lying down, like that made it worse?

Kristin:  Yeah.  It was only — I only had the cramping when laying down.  And I didn’t know until later about using magnesium or Epsom salt baths and different things you can do when you are dealing with cramping.  It wasn’t anything — I don’t think I brought it up at an appointment.  I just was like, okay, I’ve read about it.  Whatever.  It’s weird, but yeah.  So what did you have that was —

Alyssa:  Well, what about with Seth?  How was your pregnancy?  Was it different with Seth’s?

Kristin:  Totally different.  Seth was so much easier.  He was also a much bigger baby by almost three pounds, so I was showing a lot earlier.  Like, I felt like I was instantly had, like, the little baby bump.  But yeah, he was a chill baby in the womb.  Abby moved around a lot.  I used to call her my little goldfish.  Like, she was in a fishbowl and I could feel her movements very early.  And with him, I was always like, is he all right?  He’s not kicking me.  He’s not, like, in my rib.  He’s not moving.  And so I would have to, like, are you in there?  He’s just sleeping and chill.

Alyssa:  Poke him a little bit to make him move around.  He’s like, leave me alone.

Kristin:  I’m just sleeping, Mom.  But I definitely was showing earlier and felt just — I didn’t have the nausea that I did with Abby, but with him, I just felt bigger and heavier.  But I didn’t gain more weight at all.  Same amount, like about 32 to 35 pounds.

Alyssa:  Yep, my pregnancy was — like, I always tell people if I could be a surrogate, like, I would just keep having — I don’t want more children, and we went into this knowing we were only having one, so I just cherished every moment.  But I didn’t have any nausea, like ever.  I slept great.  Everything was literally perfect.

Kristin:  Did you have heartburn or anything?

Alyssa:  One day.  Literally, one day.  I remember sitting in my office at — you know, I worked at a construction company, so it’s all these guys, and I’m like, does anyone have Tums?  Like, I don’t even know.  What do I need?  I’ve never had heartburn before.  Nobody did!  My boss was like, I think I have this old pack in this cupboard in this bathroom, and they had expired 15 years ago, but I was like, screw it.  I’m taking some.

Kristin:  Something!

Alyssa:  I remember mixing baking soda with water, and I drank that whole thing down, because I’m like remembering, you know, basic chemistry and acids and bases, and I’m like, I think I’ll just drink some baking soda and see if it helps.  And it didn’t.  But I literally only had it one day.  I didn’t gain a ton of weight, either, but since I was only having one, like, I wanted to look pregnant so bad.  So bad.  And I’m really, really tall with a really long torso, and it just took forever.  I felt like I looked pregnant at maybe 30 weeks.  So I bought — I remember finally seeing this tiny little bump.  I mean, literally, like I could have just eaten too many burgers and fries that day.  And I was like, yes!  There she is!  And I went out and bought maternity pants and all this stuff, and then the maternity pants would fall off because I just wasn’t ready for it.  But I really, really, really loved being pregnant; loved looking pregnant; loved how I felt when I was pregnant.  I worked out normally through the whole pregnancy, and then finally it was — I remember the day that I think she must have just dropped.  It was like my hips moved, and I was like, oh, what was that?  And I could no longer do the workouts I was used to doing.  I went from literally going to kickboxing and yoga and all these classes to, like, okay, I’m working out at home now.  I can’t run.  I can maybe walk.  And then I can no longer stand up — the whole — even 35 weeks pregnant, I was standing up to put pants on and doing everything normally.  I’m like, okay, now I have to sit down to get dressed.  Sit down to put my shoes on.  So that was the biggest change.  And my boobs got huge, which I didn’t expect to happen that soon.  I thought that it would — it got even worse after the baby was born, after she was born and my milk came in.

Kristin:  Like, what size bra do I buy?  Because they’re huge now.  Are they going to stay huge?  What do I buy?

Alyssa:  I was just busting out of my regular bras because I didn’t know.  Are they going to stay like this?  Are they going to get bigger?  Will they go back down?  What’s happening?  What will happen?

Kristin:  Yeah, and I was still nursing Abby during my pregnancy with Seth, so I didn’t have a big supply, but I had milk throughout my entire pregnancy.  So that was weird.  That’s how it was.  And then my milk came in after I had Seth, and it was like, whoa.  So much!  Didn’t know what to do with it.  Luckily, I had Abby, so she’s like, okay, I’ll have the milk.  Great!

Alyssa:  I’ll take it!

Kristin:  Yeah.

Alyssa:  So when you were pregnant, did you have really weird dreams?  I do remember hearing that you could, but that was one of the most noticeable strange things for me was that I had really wild dreams.

Kristin:  Yeah.  I felt like they were — some of them were so lifelike.  Like, I felt like I was living the dream.

Alyssa:  Like, very vivid?

Kristin:  Yes.  Very vivid.  Like, almost in full color, just — yeah, like a movie.  But I didn’t have night terrors like some women do.  I couldn’t remember all of my dreams.  Some people would keep a dream journal, I know, during pregnancy and try to record.  Did you keep a journal?

Alyssa:  Yeah.  I’ve always been a good journaler, and especially during pregnancy.  Again, knowing this was probably our only one, I wrote down a lot, and I did write down a lot of dreams.  One that I remember most vividly is I gave birth to a kitten, and the kitten was adorable, but I remember wrapping it, like swaddling it, and then telling Brad, this is a really cute kitten, but I hope next time we have a baby that’s a human.

Kristin:  That is awesome!

Alyssa:  Oh, and then another one is Finn came out, and she was a baby, but she could talk, and so she looked at me straight in the eye, and said, well, aren’t you lucky?  You have a baby that can tell you what she needs.  And I was like, this is amazing!  This is great!  Yeah, just really, really strange.  Really strange ones.

Kristin:  I can’t remember anything specifically, but I do remember that they were very vivid and colorful.

Alyssa:  What about hair and skin changes?  Like, I know I had friends who their nails grew long and their hair was so beautiful.  And I had the opposite.  It’s like she drained all the nutrients from me.  My hair got super stringy.  My nails were really thin and would break a lot.  And then it finally went back to normal after I had her.  But those people who get the beautiful hair during pregnancy, those are the ones who it starts falling out.

Kristin:  They lose it in clumps.

Alyssa:  So I didn’t have the hair loss, but it’s because I didn’t have gorgeous hair during pregnancy.

Kristin:  Yeah.  And I felt like I did have — I grew more hair with Abby, but with Seth I was nursing, so I was depleted, anyway.  So yeah.  But I didn’t get a lot of weird hair growth.  My belly button popped out, like when my belly popped.  My belly button was probably four inches or so out.  You could see —

Alyssa:  Four inches out?

Kristin:  You could see it in photos.  Like, with the belly, the belly button was like, boom.

Alyssa:  With both pregnancies?

Kristin:  Yeah.  And I always had an outie belly button, but it never was, like, protruding all the way out.

Alyssa:  So do you think pregnancies with that belly button that pops out is people who already have an outie belly button?

Kristin:  I don’t know.

Alyssa:  I wonder what the stats are on that because I don’t have an outie, and I never got — I mean, obviously, because the baby’s pushing on it, it got closer to the — you know, there was less of a hole there.  But it never popped out.

Kristin:  Maybe someone with a medical background could explain that.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  Someone, please answer this question!  Or I could Google it, I suppose.

Kristin:  But it does make sense that if you had an outie and — I mean, I really popped.  Because of my frame, I was all belly with both of my kids, and Seth was bigger, so it was even more pronounced in the photos.  But I had friends that asked me, and they’re like, so is my belly button going to look like yours?  I don’t know!  And theirs never popped out, so it’s definitely not for everyone.  People can have hair growth in different places in their body, and the nails, like you mentioned.

Alyssa:  You know what, I feel like I did get hairier on my body, which was not a good thing.  You know, I would have rather had the luscious hair on my head.  I do remember, like, my belly looked fuzzy.  I mean, I kind of have peach fuzz anyway, but I feel like it was dark.

Kristin:  Yeah.  Some people get the line around going up their stomach.

Alyssa:  I didn’t get that, either.

Kristin:  I didn’t either.  But, yeah, there’s some definite weird changes in pregnancy.

Alyssa:  Finn was born covered in, like, black hair.  Like, not all.  I shouldn’t say covered.  She wasn’t like a monkey, but she had —

Kristin:  And she’s so blonde!

Alyssa:  Yeah.  She had dark hair on her head, which she lost it all, but all — her shoulders and her back had this, like, black peach fuzz, and I remember Brad looking at me and going, oh, my God, will that go away?  I was like, yes.  It will.  We had a fur baby!  What is going on?

Kristin:  That’s awesome.

Alyssa:  But yeah, it all fell off, but unfortunately so did the hair on her head, and she was bald for about a year.

Kristin:  Right?  Yeah.  That happens and people don’t expect it.  Or the hair can be really dark and then be light.  There’s so many weird changes with babies, as well.  My kids were covered in vernix.  I don’t know if Finn was?

Alyssa:  Yeah.  I mean, quite a bit, when I look at pictures.  Not like the — not, like, super thick, where it looks like you could peel it.

Kristin:  Like, that cheesy kind of it.  Yeah.

Alyssa:  You had a lot, huh?  You had excessive?

Kristin:  I didn’t know as much about the benefits of it.  I would have, like, rubbed it in.  But I definitely — I mean, we kept it on them a bit until they sponge bathed it off.

Alyssa:  I remember my boobs getting really veiny.  Like, in producing milk.

Kristin:  Oh, 100%, yes.  You could see the veins all over.

Alyssa:  And I didn’t even really notice it until Brad one time was like, why are you so veiny?  And I’m like, what do you mean, veiny?  And then I had a tank top on.  I think it was in summer, and I was like, oh, my God, I am veiny!  It’s like they just kind of — it was like they were going to pop right through.  My skin became transparent or something.

Kristin:  Yes.  That is definitely…

Alyssa:  And then it got even worse when I was actually nursing.

Kristin:  Yeah.  I was going to say, that continues through nursing, and then after, things go — a lot, most everything, with pregnancy goes back to normal after either nursing or delivery, so depending.  But yeah, I don’t think I have any strange after-effects, like things that listed beyond pregnancy, that I didn’t have before, other than getting varicose veins, which is genetic for me.  They were more pronounced and worse with Seth, and so — and I’m still off and on getting treatment for it because my legs ache, and as I mentioned, like I had the restless leg syndrome.  So that is — I would say that’s my biggest lingering thing is problems with circulation in my legs.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  I don’t think I have anything either.  I mean, the basic, you know.  Your bladder’s not as strong, but if only every — I mean, probably every woman in general, but even during pregnancy, if you go see a physical therapist — you know, I saw a wonderful woman named Joellen at Hulst Jepsen, and she literally changed everything.  I don’t think people understand.  Like, there is — you can do physical therapy, and it’s not just Kegels, and you can go Kegels the wrong way, and you can actually do Kegels too many times and then it has the opposite effect.  I just really learned a lot, and it helped tremendously.  Like, even now, seven and a half years after giving birth, I still had to get up once, sometimes twice a night, to pee.  And when I remember to do these exercises, I sleep all night long.  I wake up and I go pee.  But I can tell if, for like, a week, I just kind of forget about it, two or three nights into it, I’m waking up at 4:00 in the morning every day to go pee.  I’m like, oh, shoot, I haven’t been doing my exercises.  And there’s a very specific way to do them, and it’s so easy.  I could literally be doing them right now, and it helps instantly.  But people just — you know, your mom tells you it just is what it is.

Kristin:  You’re never going to be able to jump on the trampoline.

Alyssa:  Yep.  You’ll never be able to do jumping jacks.  You’ll never be able to run.  Now, granted, when I sneeze, I still do have to cross my legs and sometimes go change my underwear because I peed a little bit.  So I probably should do the exercises more, that means.

Kristin:  Yeah.  I noticed it.  I was doing a virtual 5K with some friends, and I was like, my bladder just — I feel like I need to, yeah, empty my bladder right now.  It just doesn’t — I should probably go see a physical therapist, I think, because the concrete running was not ideal for me.  I couldn’t imagine being a marathoner.  That was just a 5K.

Alyssa:  Nope.  Not for me.

Kristin:  For me, the books you read and classes you take, it’s like, yeah, you’re going to be potentially gassy in pregnancy and not know it, and I was working at the house in the later part of my pregnancy in Lansing in communications, and I remember huddling around with some male coworkers, and I passed gas in front of them, but it was silent, but it was very smelly.  And they were all like — and they knew it was me, and they didn’t want to —

Alyssa:  They didn’t blame it on each other?  They knew it was you?

Kristin:  Yeah.  They knew it was me.  I knew it had to me, and it was like, this is a real problem.  So I apologized and walked away.

Alyssa:  I didn’t know farting was a pregnancy issue.  I don’t even remember reading that.

Kristin:  Yeah.  It is.

Alyssa:  I guess I didn’t have it.  Or if I did, I was just farting my whole pregnancy without knowing it.  I don’t remember it at all.

Kristin:  I remember in childbirth classes, like, people would pass gas.  Yeah.  That’s just how it is.

Alyssa:  I mean, I was nervous about the whole pooping on the table.  I mean, that was my biggest fear.  Oh, my God, am I going to poop in front of my husband?  And I don’t think it ever happened.

Kristin:  But that is one of the most common fears that my clients have is pooping during labor and having people see it.  But it’s not a big deal.

Alyssa:  The nurses just kind of sweep it away, right?

Kristin:  Yeah.  You don’t even know.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  I remember asking Brad.  I was like — a friend was like, yeah, I think I pooped on the table, and I was like, Brad, did I — he was like, no.  I mean, not that I know of.  I don’t think so.  I’m like, okay, good.  Even if I did, he’s —

Kristin:  Not everyone does.  I mean, not all of my clients do.

Alyssa:  I remember going, like, specifically going to the bathroom that morning, and thinking, good.  I went.  Not that I can’t go again, but I had that thought in my mind.  I hope that the day I give birth, I poop in the morning so that I don’t do it in front of my husband on the table.  That was a legitimate fear.

Kristin:  Yeah.  It makes sense.  I mean, it’s weird.  Bodies do so many weird things in pregnancy, and we can talk about some more of the birth experiences later in a future podcast.

Alyssa:  Did your water break?

Kristin:  In my labor?  With my first, while I was pushing, my water broke.  And then with Seth, it was — I’d gotten to the hospital.  I was in pretty active labor, and I remember, he was so low.  I felt a ton of pressure the second I got to the hospital.  It just felt like I needed to empty my bladder constantly.  So I was toilet-sitting, which is great for labor.  I always tell my clients to do it.  And then I remember doing hands and knees on the floor of my room.  Patrick was out in the hallway calling our friends who were going to take Abby from the babysitter — actually, my parents had Abby.  Never mind.  But he was in the hall, and he could hear the pop of my water breaking from the hall on the phone with our friends.  And so it was that loud, and I had a long skirt on, and the water went — it was like a huge pool, and everything was soaked, so that I was naked after that.

Alyssa:  So you were in active labor in regular clothes?  You still had —

Kristin:  I had planned to be in a long skirt and a nursing tank, was my choice for labor.  And I had a pad and underwear, but it was like, boom.  So then my doulas took off my skirt, and then I was naked for the rest of the time.

Alyssa:  My water broke, but it was totally — like, that’s what you expect to happen.  Like, from the movies, like, it just is the huge explosion and water everywhere.  When realistically — I think in our other podcast, I said, like, 30%, but I think it’s half that.  I think it’s 10 to 15% of women.  So it’s very, very low.  It’s highly unlikely your water will actually break.  But mine did lying in bed.  And I was laying there, and it woke me up.  I felt like a — I don’t know.  Like, when your period first starts and, like, you can feel some blood coming out.  It was almost like that kind of feeling.  So I got up, and I was like, well, I’m awake now.  I better go pee.  And I climbed out of bed, and went, oh.  And I remember, like, grabbing myself and then kind of waddling to the toilet, and I sat down, and I’m like, okay, wait.  Okay, wait.  My pants are wet.  My underwear is wet.  Like, what is this?  Did I pee myself?  I’m going through all these thoughts.  Did my water break?  But it’s not, like, gushing.  I don’t remember a smell.  I pictured, like, this big gush of water, and it wasn’t.  It was like a slow trickle.

Kristin:  Yeah.  You had a slow leak.   Yeah.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  So I’m sitting on the toilet, and I go pee, but then I put a pad on, and I realize that it’s just a constant trickle, so I better call my midwife, and I did.  And when you go into triage, they always check that, because they’re like, oh, yeah, you think your water broke, but…

Kristin:  I’ve had clients think their water broke and it was a trickle, and then it was pee.  Like, the baby’s so low that —

Alyssa:  And I’ve heard that.  So then they check, and she’s like, no, sure enough, that’s amniotic fluid.  You’re good.  So that was — I mean, I think I slow leaked from — if my water broke at maybe 4:00 in the morning, and I ended up in the hospital — I went in at noon.  So it was a long time of it just kind of slowly leaking out.  I just felt like I was peeing myself a little bit every time I took a step.

Kristin:  And did it continuously leak throughout your labor in the hospital, or did you feel —

Alyssa:  That, I don’t even remember.  I mean, by the time I was in the hospital bed, contractions were, like, pretty…

Kristin:  You were focused, doing your work.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  Yeah, I don’t remember.  But I think we have this notion in our heads of what your water breaking will be like, and probably it won’t even break, and if it does, it could be any number of ways.

Kristin:  And we also expect pregnancy to either be really life-changing where you can’t do any of your normal things and don’t have the energy to work out and all of that or birth to just be like in the movies where you’re screaming and in pain.  But the reality can be so different from child to child, pregnancy to pregnancy.  Your energy levels can be different based on nutrition and exercise and age, of course.   I had my kids at an older age, so it’s much different than my clients who are 22.  Like, being 39 with my second pregnancy.  There’s some of that.  But what else was different to you than what you imagined either in pregnancy or in your labor?  I know you mentioned, like, after delivery, the pushing down on the stomach and all of that at one point.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  So one of our listeners actually had that question or that comment of, after listening to our postpartum one, she was like, I didn’t realize that after I gave birth, they were going to palpating my uterus through the top of my stomach.  And I do remember that.  They would come in and push on it to make sure it was shrinking.  And then one of the — you know, you know that you have a baby hooked to an umbilical cord, which is hooked to a placenta, but I don’t think most women — and men, like Brad was really thrown off — you have to birth a placenta after the baby.  It comes out, and he’s like, oh, my God, it’s huge!  It is a giant organ.  I don’t remember that happening.  I remember she came out, and I was just relieved, and then she’s on my chest, and I remember them saying, you still have to push out your placenta, and I was kind of like, what?  And I have no recollection of how it came out, if it was hard or easy.

Kristin:  Yeah, because then you’re so focused on baby.  It’s like that isn’t even a big deal, and it’s a pound or so.  For most people, it’s not as dramatic as birthing a baby.  It’s pretty easy.  Sometimes there can be issues.  It can get stuck.

Alyssa:  I think she was probably getting weighed and stuff at that time, so I probably was just like, oh, okay, I need to push a couple more times?  Because I do remember her being on the scale and stuff over there.  So it was probably after I birthed the placenta that they put her on my chest.  But yeah, I don’t remember it being hard.  It was just kind of weird.  I was like, oh, my God, that was in there?  Like, that’s as big as the baby!  No wonder!

Kristin:  It’s amazing.  I didn’t want to see it.  I remember my midwife asking me if I wanted to see the placenta after I had given birth to Abby, and I was like, no.  Gross.  I didn’t like blood at that time.  No thanks!

Alyssa:  And now have many placentas have you seen?

Kristin:  I love placentas, and I wanted to see with Seth, but with Seth’s pregnancy, I wanted to do — like, he was my last, and I wanted to do all the things.  So, of course.  And I saw, like, the front and the back and wanted to, like, examine it after Seth, and I wasn’t a doula at that time, so it was much different.  But I think the placenta’s beautiful.  It’s amazing.  But not everyone digs seeing the placenta.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  It’s like a big organ flinging out of your body.

Kristin:  Yeah.  Women are amazing, and bodies are amazing.  But yeah, birth can be weird.  Pregnancy is certainly different.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  I remember — and maybe it is because I’m very tall and slender with a long torso, but it was like all of a sudden, this — like, this whole area, it was just gone.  I mean, my stomach wasn’t back to normal immediately, but it was just gone.  And that’s really weird.  You don’t think about — like, you’ve held this, grown this baby inside for so long, and then all of a sudden, she’s not there anymore.  And as happy as you are to have her in your arms and meet this baby, it’s like, oh, but you’re not protected in here anymore, and I can’t feel those movements anymore, which are really cool, but I think probably that’s because I loved being pregnant so much.  If I had had a really hard pregnancy, it’d probably be like, great.  I’m happy you’re out.  You’re not jabbing my ribs and kicking my bladder all day long.

Kristin:  And you weren’t on bedrest for three weeks, and I was.  Yeah.  Things like that.  But I did love that, touching the belly and connecting and playing music and talking to my babies in the womb.  And I remember being at a political training for women who wanted to run for office, and I was pregnant with Abby at the time, and I stood up and gave my pitch, my stomp speech, and I was holding my belly.  And I remember we got feedback after, and they’re like, you really shouldn’t be touching your belly and connecting in that way.  And I’m like, it’s just what I do.  It’s natural for me to touch my belly when I stand.  But I was getting feedback that it was not a good thing, and I needed to keep my hands down and be strong.  So I remember after giving birth, not having that belly, and being so used to —

Alyssa:  Like, what do I do with my hands?

Kristin:  Right.  Having the baby in the womb to connect with, and even my first shower in the hospital after Abby.  It’s like your stomach isn’t how it used to be, but you don’t — you can see everything, your feet, you knees again.  It’s like, whoa.  This is weird.  It’s a big change for women.  So yeah, to get used to that adjustment, that first shower can be a big thing.  And, like, being able to fit into your normal clothes.  Like, when I got into my old jeans, I was, like, yes.  So that took a bit, but yeah.  But everything can be so different, and my friends had completely different pregnancies than I did.  Some were really easy.  Others were — you know, had to be induced or had physical issues.  So, yeah.  But it’s fun.  I was pregnant with two of my best friends at the same time.  I was pregnant with Seth, and our kids have grown up together, and we had completely different experiences in birth and pregnancy.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  Had I started younger, I would have had more, and knowing how much I loved it, I would love to keep having them.  But…

Kristin:  But we’re curious to hear what you found to be different than what you expected it to be or weird things about pregnancy and birth that you didn’t fully understand until you experienced it yourself.  It’s one thing to hear a story from a friend or to read something in a book, but to actually go through it yourself, like, the heartburn or acid reflux —

Alyssa:  Farting!

Kristin:  Or the farting!  Like, whatever it might be, or having milk come out of your breasts when your pregnant or getting some of that crust on your nipple and looking at it like, whoa, is this normal?

Alyssa:  Yeah.  So maybe leave us some comments about your stories or give us some story ideas for the future!  Thanks for listening.  This has been the Ask the Doulas Podcast.