Ask The Doulas Podcast

Kristin chats with Dr. Karlie Causey, co-founder of a postpartum activewear brand called Jen & Keri, a sports chiropractor and certified strength and condition coach who is passionate about providing practical tools to moms and moms-to-be, helping them restore their bodies and continue exercising after their babies are born. You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome. You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting. Let’s chat!

Kristin: Hello, hello. This is Kristin with Ask the Doulas. I am so excited to chat with Dr. Karlie Causey today. Dr. Karlie is the co-founder of a postpartum activewear brand, a sport chiropractor, and a certified strength and conditioning coach who is passionate about providing practical tools to moms and moms-to-be, helping them restore their bodies and continue exercising after their babies are born. Welcome, Dr. Karlie!

Dr. Karlie: Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

Kristin: So excited to start chatting about your company, called Jen & Keri, and also really getting into how to build foundations to stay active in the postnatal time. I know that’s a big topic for a lot of our doula clients is really getting back into fitness.

Dr. Karlie: Yes, totally. And I’m just so excited to talk about it. I love, obviously, love to talk about this topic and try to give people the helpful, practical tools as far as staying active, getting active again, especially after that baby comes and joins your world.

Kristin: Exactly. Big change.

Dr. Karlie: Yeah.

Kristin: So let’s chat about Jen & Keri. So obviously you saw a need and you filled it?

Dr. Karlie: Yeah. So after my first son – I have two boys, one who is just about three and one who is five months old. Right after my first son, I was – well, I will call it complaining. I was definitely complaining to one of my close friends and now business partner at Jen & Keri, Jess, and I was just telling her that, you know, I was really excited to get back into the gym. I have a postpartum rehab plan that I use with my patients. I’d done my plan, and I was like, okay, I’m getting back in the gym. But for me, I really felt like the nursing bras that were available were just not cutting it. I wanted something without clips, without Velcro, without the zipper. You know, all those things, while very useful, they just sort of scream nursing mom, which is wonderful, and I was so happy to be a nursing mom, but I wanted this hour where I could go to the gym or I could feel like myself, try to feel like an athlete again, and have it just be me and not focus on the baby while still being able to race home and feed my baby. So we started looking, and my friend Jess is just so good at research, and so she’s looking everywhere for me to try and help, and we couldn’t find anything. And so we sort of just started on our own, cutting up bras and seeing, what would it look like if we made it like this. And our goal was that it just would look like a regular sports bra. Yeah, and so that’s what we’ve come to now. We have a high impact sports bra that’s developed for nursing and pumping, which we also felt was really important to support moms who are pumping, as well, and give those options. And also fill that need of, you’re an athlete. You can still do these things that are important to you for your mental wellbeing, your physical wellbeing. And maybe that little bit of confidence, too, of feeling more like yourself helps you get back into the gym and helps you do some of these things that maybe you want to do and you’re feeling nervous or anxious or whatever the case might be.

Kristin: For sure. So not only are they stylish, but also functional, and as you said, it’s so important to have that normalcy and feel like your old self versus, again, thinking about your leaking breasts and all of the things and how it’s just not comfortable to get back into a workout routine.

Dr. Karlie: Yeah. And we wanted something that was really for high impact. So the bra that we have now, it’s not designed to be worn all day. It is really trying to hold the girls down so you can run, so you bike, so you can jump, do all that kind of stuff. But you can size up. I’ll often wear a size bigger and kind of wear it all day, you know. And we’re working on another one that’s more of an all day bra. But that was the need was saw that was so – I’ll use the word urgent. It felt urgent to me. And yeah, we’ve had good feedback. And the other thing that was important to us is we make it in a small to a triple XL. We really wanted to feel inclusive of all sizes and really make sure people know that it doesn’t matter your shape or size or where you are in life. You still can be an athlete. You can still do those things that you want to do and support women of every size.

Kristin: I love it. And then I saw on your website that you accept most health savings and flex spending, so that’s awesome!

Dr. Karlie: I’m a chiropractor, too, and so when we were researching, I was like, wait, you can use health savings to come see me. I bet you can use it for our bra, and turns out you can. Yeah, all you do is enter it. It’s pretty easy. Just enter is as a credit card. We felt like that was important, too, to just try to help out as much as we can. You’re buying so much stuff, you know, when you have a new baby and it just feels never ending, so that’s another piece. Okay, if we’re going to make this bra, we want to make it feel like you can wear it even after you’re done nursing. So we have some friends – it’s funny. When we were making the bra, you know, and kind of testing different models and stuff, we had some friends try it on and play beach volleyball in it, who are actually not moms, and they were sort of confused about – they just thought it was a regular bra. They didn’t know it was a nursing bra, and we were like, yes. That’s exactly what we want. We want you to not know. You don’t know you just said the right thing, you know?

Kristin: Yes. I love it. So do you ever get moms who want to use the bra in labor? I have this issue with my birth doulas clients where they prefer to wear a sports bra, but them I’m talking to them about the fact that it might need to get cut off, and you don’t want to lose that great bra that you had at one point. So have you thought about that labor time of having something that’s, again, not necessarily high impact, or do people use those bras for different reasons, whether it’s a home birth or in the hospital and just wanting to have something that’s not necessarily a nursing bra yet but give support during labor?

Dr. Karlie: Yeah, that’s so funny. I did that exact thing when I was having my first son. I had this bra, and my midwife was a really good friend of mine. She’s like, I think we need to cut this off. I was like, no, we have to save it. But yeah, we’re working on just – we call it a no-impact bra, and it’s sort of for that purpose, right? You can just, like, wear it any time. It’s just sort of holding things in place. We haven’t launched that yet, but that’s also in the works, and that would be more of a fit for that kind of thing. And I think so often women have the idea of that and then I think just end up with nothing, no bra on.

Kristin: Yep. That happens.

Dr. Karlie: So yeah, we thought of some of those things, and we’re like, okay, we have all these things we want to develop, so they’re in the works, but everything takes more time and more money than you want, so we’re working on it.

Kristin: Yes, exactly. So I’d love to hear your tips, Dr. Karlie – I know you have custom plans for your patients, but what is your advice for our listeners who are prepping for that postnatal recovery time and want to get back, whether it’s running or spinning or Pilates, whatever it might be, but to get into some sort of routine?

Dr. Karlie: Yes. Okay, great question. So there’s a couple of suggestions I always give, and one is, even if you have multiple kids, but especially if you’re a first-time mom, I always recommend to start this plan before the baby comes. Like, you know, plan out, okay, who is my pelvic floor PT going to be. Do I have a sports chiropractor? You know, all these things. Same as with, like, planning your doula, you know, you just want to have these things in place because once the baby comes, your brain is mush and life is so different, and you forget all these things that you had planned. But if you already have them set in motion, then I find women are much more successful in general after giving birth. So that’s one. Two is that I always recommend not waiting until six weeks to start something. So, obviously, that doesn’t mean you’re jumping into working out immediately after birth, but you can start with breathing exercises as early as in the hospital bed. And what we see is that during pregnancy, that diaphragm just gets so crammed up, and we really lose a lot of the endurance of it, and so even just starting some deep belly breathing and trying to see, okay, can I start to feel my transverse abdominis engage, you know, within a few days of giving birth? I have women try – the cues I like to use are, you know, you take your breath in, and then as you breathe out, you try to just lightly pull the two hip bones together in front, you know, and that will sort of start to engage that big transverse abdominis, that big flat abdominal muscle that gets so stretched out during pregnancy. It’s really important to stabilizing our core. So starting on some simple breathing exercises. I actually made – it’s called a postpartum restoration plan a few years ago, and I started using it with my patients, and it’s now available online. When COVID hit, so many people weren’t coming into the office, so I had to try to figure out a way to give people the rehab they needed when they couldn’t come and see me. And it’s an eight-week plan, and basically it just starts with breathing exercises, with bracing, with some really simple diastasis recti healing exercises and then progresses from there. So I always like to recommend that people either find a plan similar to that or they find a PT, like I said, or a postpartum exercise specialist to work with, someone that can just help, even if it’s not like a big, huge plan, someone that can give some guidance and just set them in the right direction of, here’s where you start. Where do you want to go? Let’s help you build some steps in between.

Hey, Alyssa here. I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming. Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between. You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood. You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more. You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most. And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls. If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com. We’d love to see you there.

Kristin: And do you have a different plan for your patients who have surgical births or any other medical conditions? I’m sure it’s adapted based on the individual’s needs?

Dr. Karlie: Yes. My second son was breech, and try as we might, every single thing that you can think of, natural, medical – we tried two fail versions. The guy would just not flip.

Kristin: He was there for a reason. We just don’t know what it was.

Dr. Karlie: Totally. I know. And so I am actually really grateful for that now, as much as I didn’t want to have a C-section. I really wanted to try and have an unmedicated birth and all this stuff, but I’m so grateful for it now because I really understand both sides of the story, both the vaginal birth and C-section. So I’m working on right now actually making the modifications because I don’t think I really could have – you know, as much education as we have and as much research, until I think sometimes you go through something, then you really, really understand how to change things for people you’re helping. So I’m going through right now and making some of the modifications. Like, for example, in my just regular plan, there’s some supermans where you’re laying on your stomach trying to engage the low back muscles, which is a super important part of our core. But I could not do that for the life of me six weeks. There’s a big surgical scar. So that one is a little bit obvious, but there are some more that are not quite as obvious that I’m grateful now that I know and I realize and I’m kind of making those changes. But I’ve had a few people who’ve had C-sections just kind of work with me. They tell me that, hey, I want to do this plan, but I had a C-section or had some other – you know, a little bit more traumatic tearing, that kind of thing, and then I usually just can email back and forth with them or jump on a call and try to help them that way for now.

Kristin: That makes sense. So how can our listeners work with you to come up with a plan or download a plan? How does that work outside of a course in your online store?

Dr. Karlie: I try to post stuff on Instagram as much as possible. It’s less right now with a little baby. You know, trying to really soak in the baby snuggles and all that stuff. But yeah, my plan is available online, and then people can reach out, again, of course, on Instagram either at Jen & Keri or Dr. Karlie, and I’m always happy also to help refer. I have a lot of friends and colleagues in different states, both physical therapists and chiropractors and strength coaches who work with women, so I’m always happy to help people make connections, too.

Kristin: Wherever they live. I love that. And so I’m all on board with coming up with a plan in advance, because otherwise it just doesn’t happen, and it can be overwhelming whether it’s baby number one or baby number five. So what are your tips, Dr. Karlie, on really asking for help, whether it’s the partner or family or hired care, a nanny, to really carve out that time that is so important?

Dr. Karlie: I think there’s a few things to think about, and one is sort of knowing yourself and how you operate best. So if you’re the type of person who is used to having that hour and a half, whatever it is, three, four, five days a week that you’re working out, then maybe what’s best for you is to set aside 20 to 30 minutes to do your rehab, to work on your breathing, to really get in touch with your body again because as you know, it just feels so foreign once the baby is out. You know, now you have this whole new body that you didn’t have before. It’s not the body you had while you were pregnant. I just even personally remember feeling like, whoa, what – you know, how do I move this thing? And so just trying to figure out, okay, do I like to have time set aside for myself? If so, can I talk to my partner and plan that out? You know, and it’s not perfect, but if you make that plan, then at least you kind of set that standard, and I think explaining to your partner the importance of it and why is also really helpful. Or are you the kind of person who that’s just too overwhelming, and what would be better for you is, here’s three or four exercises. You’re going to do them in five minute increments throughout the day. And I like the term habit stacking, which comes from the book Atomic Habits, if you’ve read that. I love that book.

Kristin: Oh, yes. It’s a great book.

Dr. Karlie: But I use that with my patients a lot because – well, I always joke, don’t stack anything to brushing your teeth when you’re a new mom because you might forget and it might not happen in those first couple weeks. But every time you nurse and then, let’s say, if you hand the baby to your baby to burp them, then you do a set of breathing exercises. Or every time you go to the bathroom, you do a set of five squats. If that’s more kind of congruent with how you are most successful, then make that plan and just come up with those exercises or get on board with someone who can help you with that and then sort of make your plan that way. But I think learning about how you are going to be most successful and then building from there is best, rather than trying to squeeze yourself in some other kind of box that maybe isn’t the most successful for you.

Kristin: That makes sense. And I think again, like, some people just don’t want to ask for help, or they just – they’ve moved to a new area and don’t have it and can’t afford to hire out, so I love having those five minutes. Are there any – as far as that six-week appointment, what are the key physical activities that people need to get that permission from their OB or midwife to engage in other than, obviously, running and things like that, that are more high impact?

Dr. Karlie: Right, yeah. So that six-week appointment can just be so helpful or so useless, you know, just depending on where you are and who you see and that sort of thing. I’ve had patients where they just got no guidance. They just basically like, six weeks, you’re cleared. And I think there just has to be some more education around, like, what that means, what you’re actually cleared for, whether it’s working with someone like me or someone like you or a midwife. I don’t know. There has to be – I feel like it’s so much better when people can get a little more guidance. So what I like to tell people is, if you’re doing your breathing, you’re doing your bracing – I like people to remember that the glutes and the low back are part of the core, and the glutes are connected to the pelvic floor, right? So it’s really important to start just some light exercises that are safe, like glute bridges, you know, whether you’re holding those or kind of doing reps. Squats, even like hip hinges or good mornings with just a band, something that’s working the posterior chain. Even just walking hills is an easy one that I tell moms they can start with if they want. If they’re out walking, that’s one good one that can get the heart rate up a little bit, and that really works the posterior chain, so they’re sort of getting a two for one there, which is good, and just starting some of that basic rehab. And then after the six weeks, sort of being a little more intentional about, okay, what is it that you want to get back to? Is it weightlifting? Then we need to start off with a blank barbell and a PVC pipe and starting slow. Or is it running? We need to make sure that you can jump on one foot for a minute on both sides for a certain amount of time. That sort of thing. And just what are those things that you want to work back into, and it’s all based on the person and what their goals are.

Kristin: That makes sense. And certainly – I love that you brought up pelvic floor therapists earlier and physical therapy. So that is something that is getting brought up more and more at those six week appointments, so it’s not just doulas talking about those options, so I’m very thankful for that.

Dr. Karlie: Yeah, and it’s so funny because I think, you know, back in the day, chiropractors and physical therapists were sort of a little more at each other and didn’t work together as well in some cases, and in my world, it’s not like that at all anymore. I work really closely with a lot of great physical therapists and a lot of great pelvic floor physical therapists, and I think we can work so well together. And the thing I think is most unfortunate is that it’s not as it is in some countries sort of required, you know, as part of the postpartum birth process. In other countries, you just like straightaway see a pelvic floor physical therapist. And they can help you see, okay, are things fine and you’re progressing just normally? Are things too tight? Are things – you know, like, what’s going on? How’s the alignment of your pelvis? And so yeah, we can work together so well. So I always recommend my patients – even if they’re like, I have no problems; no leaking, no pain, no nothing. I’m great. I’m like, just go for one visit then to a pelvic floor physical therapist. Just let them do a quick check over, and let them tell you that you’re all good. You know, and in most cases, they’re so busy that if you’re good, they’ll get you out of their office. They’re not trying to keep you there, you know. So I think it’s just – it can be really helpful for people to go that route, too, and know that, like, not all those visits are internal exams. They can do external, and there’s a lot of conversation around that. They’re not just like jumping right in, you know?

Kristin: Exactly. And I’m sure as a sports chiropractor, you’re also giving referrals to pediatric chiropractors if they’re struggling with latch or colic or other issues.

Dr. Karlie: Totally, yeah. Constipation is a big one. And even birth trauma because the way that babies come out of the body is pretty traumatic, as you know. So yeah, most babies can benefit also from a check, so I work closely with those docs, too. They’re wonderful.

Kristin: Great resource. So any final tips for our listeners and doula clients?

Dr. Karlie: Yeah. I think one thing that I always like to stress is even though I say you don’t need to wait until six weeks to be doing breathing and light rehab stuff, I always make sure people know that the slower you start off, the better, as far as those bigger movements and jumping back into maybe stuff that you were doing before you were pregnant. Slow and steady wins the race, and I always just make sure I stress that. It sometimes feels so boring to do the rehab work, the breathing, this kind of stuff first, but when you build that foundation and then you slowly ease back into whatever activities it is that you love, that’s where success really comes and where you make sure that you don’t cause problems down the road that are going to inhibit you getting back to the gym and getting back to even just running around with your kids, you know? So slow and steady wins the race, and I’ve never really heard anyone say, oh, I wish I would have started running sooner. Right? But I’ve heard many people say, oh, I started running too soon and I wish I would have waited. So that’s one tip that I think is definitely worth putting out there.

Kristin: Thank you, Dr. Karlie. So outside of your website and Jen & Keri, you had mentioned, of course, Instagram, and that’s also @jenandkeri, but you’re on a couple other social media networks?

Dr. Karlie: Yeah, we’re on Facebook, too, of course. My own personal Instagram is @drkarlie. I guess we’re on TikTok, too, but I am just like – I don’t really know how TikTok works.

Kristin: Same.

Dr. Karlie: My partner does that. But we’re there, and we’re always happy – you know, if you have a question or are looking for a provider or even have some feedback, if you have the bra – we’re always looking for feedback. You know, we’re a small company, and we really created this bra to empower women. It’s our small little corner of the world to help people get back to doing what they love to do and to tell them, like, hey, our motto is every mom is an athlete, and that means a couple of things to us. It means, one, the things that you do as a mom are very athletic, so even if you don’t consider yourself an athlete, you know, you lower the baby into a crib. Well, that’s a hip hinge or a deadlift. You pick the baby’s car seat up and put it into the car. That’s a press. So just sort of honoring all the athletic things that moms do all day long. And then secondly it’s saying, you know, you can be that athlete again if you want, and we’re here to support you in doing that.

Kristin: Beautiful. Yeah, and I agree. I mean, even looking at birth, it can be an athletic event.

Dr. Karlie: Oh, my gosh, the most athletic event, arguably, right, that most of us will ever do!

Kristin: Exactly. Yeah, I compare it to training both mentally and physically the way that athletes prepare. Doing prenatal visits and supporting our clients is really getting into that mind-body connection that athletes have, so I love your slogan of every mom is an athlete. It’s beautiful.

Dr. Karlie: Thank you.

Kristin: Well, thank you so much for your time and your amazing tips, Dr. Karlie. I hope we can chat again soon. We’ll keep an eye on your updates bras as you release more options.

Dr. Karlie: Yeah, thank you. We’re very excited.

Kristin: And I will definitely share Jen & Keri with not only our doula clients but also our Becoming a Mother students.

Dr. Karlie: Awesome. Great.

Kristin: Thank you again!

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube. If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review. Thank you! Remember, these moments are golden.

 

We talk with Estelle Giraud, CEO and co-founder of Trellis Health, about navigating healthcare systems during pregnancy.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Hello, hello.  This is Kristin with Ask the Doulas, and I am so excited to chat with Estelle Giraud today.  Estelle is the co-founder of Trellis Health, which is an online platform that takes the frustration and anxiety out of coordinating and curating pre- and postnatal health.  Estelle is also a mother herself.  So navigating the healthcare system is a personal passion of hers, as well.  So welcome, Estelle!

Estelle:  Thank you so much!  It’s great to be here.

Kristin:  I would love to hear a bit about your journey as a mother and then what led you again to getting into technology in the healthcare space.

Estelle:  Yeah.  So I’ll preface this by saying that I’ve worked my entire career in healthcare in one way or another, in human health.  At the time, kind of prenatal and throughout the early part of my pregnancy, I was working for a corporate company in the medical and healthcare space, and I was really focused on precision medicine and kind of how do we make medicine better.  So it’s always been in the back of my brain, and a big part of that was focused on cancer patients and, you know, really sick – these really kind of catastrophic diseases that we face.  I didn’t think about parenthood or motherhood or really anything in that journey, and I’ll say with my motherhood journey, I am an IVF mum.  I’m really open about that.  It was not an easy or a fast IVF.  We were doing it for other reasons.  I went into thinking, I’m in my early 30s.  I have no kind of infertility issues.  This is going to be really straightforward.  I’m one of the lucky statistics.  And that obviously wasn’t the case, and we did three cycles and multiple egg retrievals.  I had a couple of pregnancies that didn’t come to term that I lost the children.  I lost the babies during pregnancy.  I mean, this is a quick sidebar.  I think I didn’t speak about these things, but as I’m speaking about them now, I realize how common this is and how quiet we stay as women generally, and I think we miss out on a lot of support for each other to just understand and be there and say, you know what, I experienced this as well.  It’s really, really hard.

Kristin:  Absolutely.  We don’t talk about it enough.  I agree.

Estelle:  We don’t talk about it enough.  So, you know, I went through this process, and then I became pregnant with my son.  And, you know, I’m sure we could talk about just what IVF looks like in terms of early pregnancy, but some of the things around injections and progesterone injections – everything was just mind blowing to me.  But then I made it into – I think I was about 20 weeks when I started to feel really kind of comfortable in that pregnancy, and I was like, oh, I can breathe out.  I’m like, it’s fine now.  I’m – you know, I’m pregnant.  It all – you know, I don’t have to – there’s nothing really that can, like, happen at this point.  And I don’t say any of this to kind of scare your listeners or anything like that.  It’s just about, you know, education.  All the different journeys that motherhood can take, and to be secure and empowered in that, in your journey.  It’s nobody else’s, but this was my journey.  And so I had a couple of months, but then I had prenatal hypertension, and I was a high risk pregnancy, so I had a lot of appointments.  I was monitoring my blood pressure.  I was monitoring all of these symptoms.  I was at risk for preeclampsia.  And I ended up getting postpartum preeclampsia.  Ended up back in the hospital, actually in the same delivery ward with the same nurse in the same room that I had my son.  The nurse was like, what are you doing?  Why are you back here?  But I was back in hospital at day seven after he was born.  So I had a newborn, and it was just – you know, the experience wasn’t what I expected all around, but one of the things that I really took away from that is how much women take responsibility for their health throughout this journey.  And as a first time mum, you know, you think that it’s all this completely standardized process, and then when you get into it, you realize that it’s not, and you have a lot of decision-making power, and you have a lot of kind of – you take responsibility for your health like you never have before, but at the same time, our medical system – everything about it isn’t really set up to support women easily and kind of, you know, take away some of that anxiety, support them in their choices, support them in understanding their health, giving them digital tools to help them manage their health.  You know, I had hypertension.  I was measuring my blood pressure three times a day.  And I had it in an Apple note in my phone so I would, you know, make note of the time and what the measurement was and take that into my doctor’s appointment every week, and I had ten minutes with the doctor.  And the question always was, you know, how are you feeling?  What should I know about?  And I’m trying to, like, communicate everything in ten minutes and be really efficient about it, make sure that I don’t miss anything.

Kristin:  Yeah, it’s not enough time at all.

Estelle:  It’s not enough time, and, you know, they want to be helpful.  They want to make sure that they’re not missing anything.  But we don’t have – you know, it’s not like 50 years ago or decades ago when we had family doctors and this kind of really supported generational care.  I’ve lived in multiple states.  I’m in Seattle now, but I moved here just a couple of years before I was pregnant, and so I’d never seen these doctors before.  They didn’t have my history.  It’s just a lot of pressure to put on a new relationship, and so to cut some of the story out but to sum it up, what I’m really committed to now with Trellis Health is this idea of, can we support women in this journey with their own personal health information, with everything about their health history and their choices and goals and give them the tools to navigate that journey with ease.  And so things like blood pressure monitoring for anybody at risk or suffering hypertension, we have a digital app.  We kind of pre-program in all the reminders that you would need to manage your health with prompts.  You can input measurements directly into the app.  And we summarize all of that into, like, a snapshot of your health that you can then take into your doctor for that appointment.  You can make note of questions that you have.  But they have all of your lab history and blood pressure readings for the last week or two weeks or however long it’s been, symptoms, kind of everything summarized in one sheet that you can both look at and kind of have a real conversation about your health in a very efficient way.

Kristin:  That’s amazing.  And I’m sure if any of our listeners are working with, say, a homebirth midwife, they could also, of course, you know, share that information regardless of who the provider is.

Estelle:  Exactly.  I’m really a strong proponent of the midwife.  I mean, anybody in that care team, and even partners, as well.  There’s support for women around their health and around pregnancy, like being able to communicate that story with people around you that are helping you manage your health.

Kristin:  I’m all about that empowerment.  We have a program at one of the hospitals in my area called the Centering for Pregnancy Model, and they do some of their own assessments and meet together weekly and really take charge of their pregnancy, and then also have that support combined in one.  So I love everything you’re doing.

Estelle:  I think it’s such – I mean, I get really riled up about this.  Like, women’s health has been overlooked.  I’m a woman in tech.  I’m building a software company.  And it took me until I was pregnant to realize the gap here.  And why in this age with all the solutions that we have is this still overlooked?  Women’s health is such an important area, and particularly around pregnancy, we have to do better.

Kristin:  Yeah.  And women are dying in childbirth.  It shouldn’t happen.

Estelle:  Exactly.  These are preventable deaths.  I’m sure you know this and I’m sure your listeners know this, as well, but the US has one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the developed world.  We’re trying to change those statistics and giving women the tools to really advocate for and communicate their own health, and everybody, like regardless of access to the top holistic, women’s health, maternal care facilities in the country, like, this should be available to every woman.

Kristin:  Right.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  I totally agree, and having had preeclampsia myself and bedrest and an induction, I can totally understand, you know, that need for really understanding how you can converse with your healthcare team and really advocate for yourself early on because I was overwhelmed.  And then as you had mentioned, eclampsia after delivery and so on.  So many things get missed.  It’s not just the pregnancy complications, but as you had mentioned in your own story, it’s some of the postnatal and hemorrhaging, eclampsia.  Really being able to have that self-assessment and understand your own personal healthcare history and story.  So knowing when things might be off or wrong rather than waiting for that six-week appointment.

Estelle:  We spoke to so many women – you know, user interviews – and it was such a common theme that you – you know, for your entire pregnancy, you have so much focus on you and your health.  You know, people will give you a seat to sit down or you’ve got these appointments, in the end particularly, like every couple of days, every week.  And then the baby is born, and in a lot of cases, whether that’s a natural delivery or a C-section or whatever that looks like, it’s a huge experience.  And from a physical, emotional, mental, everything, and then you don’t have a follow up for six weeks and you’re taking care of another human around the clock.  It’s just – you know, we’re also really kind of focused on that early postpartum period.  Like, how do we check in with women?  How do we make sure they have the right tools again to easily manage their health, whether that’s pain medication or other medications that they’re on?  When I was leaving the hospital, my husband pre-programmed in my calendar all the whole schedule of all of my medications for the next two weeks.  You know, I had blood pressure medications.  I had painkillers because I had a C-section.  I had all these different things.  And I just couldn’t do it.  But he – like, I didn’t even know what time of day it was, but I would just get a ping on my phone.  It’s time to take this medication.  I’m like, oh, this is convenient.  This is helpful.  But he had to spend, you know, a couple of hours manually doing that.  I was like, why can’t we have a digital tool that helps do this for parents?

Kristin:  Yeah.  That’s amazing.  So how – you know, there are so few women in tech.  How did you make this happen?  Bring the dream to reality.

Estelle:  I’m sure we could spend a whole podcast talking about this.  I’m mission driven to found it.  Like, I couldn’t do this.  I think there’s such strength that you have if you recognize, and especially if you’ve lived through a problem yourself as a founder, and you’re like, the world needs this, and I have this skill set, and I have the experience to be able to build this.  There’s this responsible that comes with that, and it’s something that drives me to be able to do it.  When I left my corporate job and – you know, we haven’t really spoken about it, but the vision for Trellis Health is beyond pregnancy and even women.  We see it evolving into a family health platform that houses all of your family’s health records.  You know, health is such a generational thing.  And for a lot of women, post-pregnancy, you are managing the health of that child.  Women are the chief medical officers typically of their family.  You know, you’re making the decisions around healthcare or you’re in those early appointments.  You’re responsible for feeding and sleeping, a lot of these things.  And, you know, partners of course are part of that, but it’s a transition from pregnancy that often doesn’t kind of fully go away.  And so we see Trellis Health evolving into tools for women to manage the health of their children; partners on the platform, as well, and then elderly parents as they age.  You get kind of sandwiched into this health management role as a woman, and you’ve got a corporate job.  You’ve got a life.  You’ve got all of these other things that you need to be able to do with your time.  Like, let’s just make that easier and connected and build this generational resource that you can then kind of pass down to your children.  They can see your health history, risk factors, really help them manage their health for the rest of their life, as well.  This goes all the back to my genetics background.  You know, I see the generational nature of health and how we can develop a better understanding of what contributes to disease through really connected family generational information.

Kristin:  Beautiful.  And oftentimes we don’t know our own family history.  We get asked, you know, those questions at doctor visits, but we don’t always have the answers.

Estelle:  Yeah.  And so this is something that I saw when I was in my corporate job, and I see the way the medical industry is evolving, you know, indirectly, as well.  We just have a data problem in healthcare.  Your data is all over the place.  And this is not – this is such an obvious take in healthcare, but nobody has been able to fix it.  And I think part of that is missing the right value proposition for the right customer at the right time, and my experience through pregnancy made that crystal clear to me, that this is a missed opportunity for women.  And yeah, nobody was building that.  So I’ll say it’s not easy.  It’s a process.  Everything’s a process.  And we’re small.  We’re building.  I have a great team of people that are really committed to this mission with me.  I can talk about kind of what it takes as a female in tech, you know, VC-funded and the way that our funding system works and some of the biases that exist against women founders, but at the end of the day, wanting to change those statistics, as well.

Kristin:  I mean, it’s honestly just tackling two huge problems in society in one business, so I love it.  Yes, so walk me through how our listeners would be able to join the platform, how affordable is this.  I’m thinking it’s almost like having concierge medicine but in the tech space.

Estelle:  So we are in private beta right now, and I say private because we’re not – you know, this isn’t something that you’ll find on Google ads.  But we are still open, and so if any of your listeners are currently pregnant and want to be a part of our beta program, we’re offering that free of charge for two years, and so they can sign up on our website.  There’s a short form that they fill out.  We will be in touch with them, get them set up.  We’re offering a white glove onboarding for all the people who are part of our beta.  And then what I will say is the experience that we’re trying to enable is that this is as frictionless as possible.  So for anybody that maybe has thought about health records before – I regularly come across people who think they have to call their doctors and get all these faxed medical records or input in a lot of data themselves.  One of the key differences with what we’re able to build today is that we can do a lot of that completely frictionless.  So we verify people’s identity.  We have a super secure system.  We’re a HIPAA-covered entity.  So we have this security system that enables us to verify identities and then connect medical records in the back end so users don’t have to kind of do that heavy lifting themselves.  You’ve got other things that you want to do with your time right now.  And then the beta, the one ask that we have is that people would be willing to give us feedback.  We’re making this product for women and for this experience, and so any and all feedback, we’re really kind of leaning into.  So if people are really kind of passionate about this space or even just interested in and want to test it out, please get in touch.  We would love to chat with you.  In terms of moving forward, we’re priced at $99 a year.

Kristin:  Very affordable.

Estelle:  Right.  We’re still investigating, but I have a goal that we will be able to be covered under HSA and FSA accounts, as well.

Kristin:  Makes perfect sense that it should be covered.

Estelle:  Yes.

Kristin:  I love it.  So you’re also on other social media channels, correct, Estelle?

Estelle:  Yes, that’s correct.  And I am personally on – you know, we were talking about women in tech.  I want to be a voice for other women.  When I was pregnant and I was in the early days of founding Trellis Health, I was constantly looking for role models.

Kristin:  Of course.

Estelle: I would spend hours on Google.  Where is the pregnancy or founding a tech company – how do I know that I can do this?  And there wasn’t a lot of – you know, I really struggled to find examples of those women.  And so I am on Twitter.  I’m on LinkedIn.  I’d love to connect with anybody, particularly other women if they’re interested in the story.  I talk about, you know, just what it means to be a female founder and to build a company in software and being a mother at the same time.  So yeah, happy to connect with people there.

Kristin:  You are so inspiring.  Thank you for sharing your story, Estelle, and for the work you’re doing.  You’re definitely going to be changing so many lives for the better, and I will share the information about your beta with my doula clients and Becoming a Mother students, and of course, our listeners.

Estelle:  Thank you so much!

Kristin:  Thank you!

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

We talk with Cara Tyrrell about using sign language with newborns, infants, and toddlers.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts. Be sure to listen to find out how to get a free download on the benefits of ASL for your little ones!

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Hello, hello!  This is Kristin with Ask the Doulas, and I am so excited to chat with Cara Tyrrell today.  Cara has a bachelor’s degree in ASL and linguistics and a master’s degree in education.  She’s a trained early childhood teacher and early years caregiver, continuing education consultant, and a parent coach.  In her preschool and kindergarten classrooms, Cara identified a pattern of underdeveloped skill sets in her students indicating a lack of overall readiness to learn.  After years of hearing parents say, “I’m so glad you’re their first teacher,” she realized she wasn’t.  The solutions to arming preschoolers and kindergarteners with comprehensive readiness skills for finding success in school started with these same parents in the family home at birth.  This led her to professionally pivot.  She left the classroom to test her earliest years methodology as a full service nanny, serving a family from the birth of their child until they entered a traditional school setting.  Years of implementing strategies, systems, and scripts confirmed her hypotheses.  All children, regardless of their birth origin or natural characteristics, can thrive as early learners in the Core4 readiness areas when parents and caregivers create the home environment with intention.  So early in the onset of the COVID pandemic, Cara felt called to bring the Core4 methodology for raising truly world-ready kids to the world to arm proactive parents with the tools they want and need to raise happy, healthy, successful kids.  Through Core4 Parenting, Cara is shifting the focus.  Parenting personal development meets early childhood education.  She coined the phrases “parenting GPS” and teaches how to write a personalized parenting mission statement as a cornerstone of the Core4 methodology serving the invisible learning years from birth to age 5.  Welcome, Cara!

Cara:  Thank you!  So glad to be here and thanks for that beautiful introduction.

Kristin:  What an amazing journey from teacher to really testing out your methodology as a nanny and creating this much-needed program during the pandemic when parents were overwhelmed and isolated.

Cara:  You know, it was like coming home for me because I started my journey to serving little people as a nanny when I was a teenager and then a young adult and moved into the teaching space and so coming back to nannying with an agenda, if you will, felt really right, and it was an amazing experience being with little people again in a different time period because clearly, it was 20 years later since I had first become a nanny.

Kristin:  That’s amazing.  So our topic today, although I think I could speak with you about so many different topics, is focused on the child’s first communication, so using sign to speak and ASL classes that you offer for newborn, infant, and toddler parents.

Cara:  Yes.  As you mentioned, I do have a degree in linguistics and in American Sign Language, so for me, this is a real passion point, and the first thing that I always want parents to understand is that communication is not language.  And language is not communication.  They are uniquely different in many ways because your baby communicates with you from the minute that they’re born.  They’re just not using words.

Kristin:  Yes.  So true.  So I know I used a bit of baby sign and took classes with my first child, and it was very helpful, especially with eating communication.  Any tips on really how to find the right program, how families can begin implementing at a very early age some of the ASL techniques?

Cara:  Yes, absolutely.  What’s important to understand is that the earlier you start, the better, but the earlier you start, the longer you will wait to see your child start to produce signs on their own.  It’s one of those “believe it to see it.”  We know our kids are going to talk someday.  We believe it.  But we know we have to wait a really long time for that to happen.  Your baby’s brain is making neurological connections, is creating those language-based pathways from birth, and you are their language source.  You are creating the dictionary from which they will pull from when they have the ability in their physiological body and brain and the muscle motor control in their tongue to start communicating back with you.  So the earlier you start, the bigger and the more complex and rich that dictionary is going to be.  So I highly recommend that parents take my Sign to Speak: The Communication Bridge Course when they’re still pregnant, and start using it immediately when their baby is born.  Obviously, not everybody finds me or my programming that early, and that’s okay, too, because the beautiful part of this is that the human body, your baby’s body, will be ready to produce signs with their hands long before they will be ready to produce words with their mouth.  Right?  Gross motor skills come first.  The moving of their arms up so that you know they want you to pick them up; the index finger pointing when they see something new so you know they want you to tell them what that object is.  These are gross motor movements with their hands and bodies that are communicating in a pre-language way.

Kristin:  And with that delay, their speech, then, as far as their first words, if they’re used to signing and getting, you know, exactly what they need through that early communication, is there any delay in speech if they’re able to express themselves through sign?

Cara:  I am so glad you asked that question because it is the top concern that parents have, and the answer is no.  There is definitely no delay.  The more language inputs, the better in those early years when their brain is developing, and actually, the answer is it helps their speech become a part of their natural life if not on time, even earlier than that typical milestone would have been reached.  And the reason is – well, I guess it’s how you use it, right?  We need to know as parents why we’re choosing to use signs with our babies.  And in my course, I break it down into three groups on purpose.  The first are basic needs, our basic survival needs.  And the next are health, hygiene, and safety signs because after you have a newborn, you now have an infant that is going to be exploring their world a little bit, and your job is to keep them healthy, safe, and clean with hygiene, and then after you have an infant, you have this pre-toddler or you have this toddler who is exploring the world even more with their bodies and now their brains, and now they have opinions and wants and needs and desires.  And so the third group of signs that we tackle in the course are those so you can start building a choice-making relationship with your child inside your home.  So not only doesn’t delay their speech, it encourages it because the arc of the course is such that I’m encouraging you to say the spoken word as you produce the sign, and when you start to see your child try that – I have this cool little video montage that shows a 10-month old signing, exclusively signing, “more.”  And then a 14-month old saying “mu-mu-mu-mu” as they sign “more,” and then an 18-month old who has completely dropped the sign and is just communicating with you.  “More, please.”

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  And I remember my daughter doing some of that.  So she was signing and trying to attempt her first words.  That makes complete sense.  So ideally, you would take the course during pregnancy, and then with these different stages, of course you would be able to refer and refresh your memory.  So you have that extra time during pregnancy to really absorb versus being so focused on that early parenting and postnatal recovery.  So I love that they can reference it versus taking an in-person class and then forgetting or referring to books or handouts.  Really having those videos to accompany as time goes on and our memories are short, so we can refer to that toddler stage and how to basically enhance skills that their child already has from the earlier portion of your course.

Cara:  Absolutely.  And yes, it is yours for life.  You have lifetime access.  You go in there and grab what you need when you need it.  But the only way that you’re going to know to go grab what you need is if you’ve already opened up to the awareness that this is the tool that you’re choosing to support your child’s language development as they grow.  And the other thing that makes it – what I try to do in each module, and just so you are aware and your listeners are aware, each lesson is five minutes or less.

Kristin:  Oh, wonderful.

Cara:  And you don’t even have to think about it.  When you sign up for the course, you get your introduction email, and then once a day, you get a “Here’s your lesson one” email, “Here’s your lesson two” email.  All you have to do is click, watch, and go implement it.  And I did this on purpose because as a teacher, I know that building the habit of signing, creating it as just part of the culture of your home, is what’s going to create long-term transformational results for you.  And so building a habit takes about three weeks.  My course takes three weeks.  And you get one sign a day delivered to you for 21 days in a row, and you have created a new, healthy communication habit that not only is creating the dictionary of your new baby’s brain, but it also takes some of the stress of that early communication between yourself and the other members of your household down a few notches.  And that’s my favorite thing, when I hear people say, “I feel calmer and I feel more confident knowing I’m doing something wonderful for my child.  But also, it’s really helping everybody else in the house stay connected, too.”

Kristin:  I love it.  Yeah, and if there are other children in the house, they can engage.  So it’s beautiful.  And then of course as the modules continue and questions arise, is there an interaction component that our listeners can expect?

Cara:  Yes.  So one of the things that matters to me is that they feel supported.  And what I have created is a virtual village.  It is a private online community for conscious moms raising world-ready kids, and we are all in there together.  And then inside the village is yet another group that is exclusively for people who are taking the sign language class, and in there, we can ask our questions.  I’m hopping into the group all the time.  They can get the answers that they need.  And then they can come back into the larger feed of the virtual village and be interacting with other moms who have same-aged kids.

Kristin:  Yeah, that interaction is so important.  Otherwise you can feel so isolated during pregnancy and certainly in early parenting.  So I love that there’s specific networking for the Sign to Speak students but also the larger community, since you have so many other programs for families.

Cara:  Yes.  And I recently was asked the question, when is the best time to take parenting classes, and quite honestly, the answer is while you’re still pregnant.  We know it’s so much easier to take care of your tiny growing human while they are inside you than after they have joined the world.  It’s a different skill set that’s required, and it’s so much more energy.  And so that’s why inside the virtual village is where I have the rest of the Womb to One digital course series, and parents can just work through it on their own time.  Concerned about the third trimester and it’s approaching quickly?  Eight weeks to go, here’s what you need to know is a course we offer.  Concerned about postpartum, what it’s going to look like when you get home from the hospital?  We have a course and it comes directly after the third trimester course.  What to expect when you’re done expecting.  And so what I tried to do is design these digital courses in such a way that they truly hold you where you are in your pregnancy journey all the way through until your child turns one year old because that first year can be the most overwhelming and hardest to keep perspective in as you navigate your daily life.

Kristin:  Agreed.  Yeah, it’s a similar focus that we have in the Becoming a Mother course in really getting our students to engage in early pregnancy, even though half of our course is focused on the early parenting and postnatal recovery and feeding options and so on.  It’s so much more beneficial to engage during pregnancy when you have the time, even if it’s your fourth child.  You have more time than caring for a newborn, and caring for yourself during recovery.  So I completely agree.  How can our listeners connect with you?  I know you’ve got an amazing website, but you’re also very engaged in social media?

Cara:  Yes, if you’re so looking to connect with me on social, we are @core4parenting on Instagram and the broad birth to five space.  If you’re looking to connect with me specifically about toddlers, you can find me @core4parenting on TikTok.  I have a channel there that’s specifically for pandemic moms raising toddlers now and the strategies that they need in order to feel successful in helping their kids meet their milestones.  And if you want more information why it’s so valuable to arm your child with ASL skills, I have a free download that I am so happy to offer your listeners, 5 Reasons To Use ASL Signs With Your Infants and Toddlers.

Kristin:  So helpful, Cara!  Any final tips for our listeners and what we didn’t cover as they’re preparing for their new baby?

Cara:  As they’re preparing for their new baby – well, since we’ve been talking about language, I’ll just leave them with this: knowing that there’s two different types of language, receptive and expressive, and your new baby comes into the world as a receiver.  They are going to be receiving everything from you.  The words you say, the way you hold them, the emotions you’re feeling.  It’s all being absorbed into their beautiful body and brain.  And so just know that what you have to put in, you’re going to be putting in for a long time before you see any of the expressive pieces start to come back at you.

Kristin:  I love it.  And that can be challenging for partners to not feel as bonded until baby is more expressive, so I love your final tip, especially as you’re looking at partners and fathers and knowing that the engagement will be reciprocal over time once they’re able to communicate.

Cara:  Absolutely.  And we’re often surprised by what comes back at us, and we say, how did they learn that?  Oh, wait, I didn’t realize everything I was doing was being put in this memory bank.

Kristin:  Exactly.  So lovely.  Well, thank you for your time today, Cara, and all of the work you’re doing.  I love everything about your program and can’t wait to connect with you more.

Cara:  The feeling is mutual.  Thank you for the space to share, and I look forward to hearing from you in the future.

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

 

Kristin and English Goldsborough chat about body image during pregnancy and the importance of nutrition.  English owns The Nourishing Tree and is a functional nutritional therapy practitioner and a certified lactation counselor.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Hello.  This is Kristin with Ask the Doulas, and I’m joined today by English Goldsborough.  Welcome, English!

English:  Hi, Kristin.

Kristin:  And you are with The Nourishing Tree and a functional nutritional therapy practitioner.  So let us know what type of training you go through to – you know, I understand functional medicine, and I understand nutritionist, but this is a whole other category, so I’m really interested to hear your journey in this.

English:  You know, it’s kind of marrying those two things together.  So I went through the Nutritional Therapy Association.  It was back when we actually got to meet in person before things changed.  So now it’s all online, but we actually got to meet in person and do some body work and stuff like that.  We basically learned all about the ancestral diet, you know, how cultures ate in the past, where things kind of took a turn, not for the better, as far as the industrialization of foods, that kind of thing.  The turning food into not food, that kind of thing.  A lot about how the whole body works as a whole system and how when we put the right foods in the body, it works how we want it to.  When we feed it foods that it doesn’t realize is foods, it doesn’t necessarily work like we would want it to.  So I started there and then went on to some extra trainings after that to tie in the lab work and things like that.  But very Weston A. Price foundation type.

Kristin:  Nice.  And you’re also a certified lactation counselor, so that works very well in conjunction with the nutrition and functional medicine.

English:  Yes.  I like to tie in the whole preconception, prenatal, postpartum, lactation, the whole nine yards, right?

Kristin:  Yes, because it’s so important to focus on the food that you’re putting in your body when you’re feeding your baby.  So I really love that you combined all of that.

English:  Thank you.  I find it important.  I mean, I find that a lot of couples come to me when they’re struggling to conceive, and they say, okay, well my goal is, let’s get pregnant, and what I give them is a goal that’s so much bigger than that, you know, with affecting the child’s health long-term for their whole life.  So something that’s not talked about, I guess, a lot, but so important.

Kristin:  Yes, it’s key.  And you look at allergies and other things during the breastfeeding stage, and so working with a nutritionist like yourself if you need to cut out dairy or other foods would be very helpful.

English:  Absolutely.  Yes.  Absolutely, because there’s so much we can do, right?  You don’t have to suffer.  The baby doesn’t have to suffer.  We can really get things back on track, for sure.

Kristin:  So English, I would love to hear how – you talked about pre-conception, but when your clients are in the early phase of pregnancy, what is it like to work with you?  How are you checking in with their health and progress?

English:  Yeah, so a lot of times we will actually do some blood work, but we’re looking at it through the lens of pregnancy, right, because a lot of things change as we’re going through pregnancy.  So we definitely have to keep that in mind and not look at this bloodwork and compare it to someone who’s not going through pregnancy.  So we’ll look at that, but, you know, we’re really looking at nutrient status, you know, things that the mom is going to need, the growing baby’s going to need, that we’re going to need once we get into breastfeeding.  I think a lot of women initially come to me because perhaps they maybe lost weight before they got pregnant or they’re worried about gaining that back, so weight, I think, is at the forefront of a lot of women’s minds where they’re like, well, how can I have a healthy pregnancy without gaining unnecessary weight.  So a lot of it is working through what is actually – what your body wants to do, how we can honor that, those kinds of things.

Kristin:  Yes, that makes complete sense.  We have an online course that we launched during the pandemic called Becoming A Mother, and our first module goes into a lot about that body image and how you feel as your body’s changing, especially for women who’ve had past issues with weight fluctuation or just their overall body image in general.  And so getting on that scale for every appointment can be triggering if someone has had an eating disorder or is feeling pressured about weight gain, especially carrying multiples and so on.

English:  Yes, very triggering, and a lot of times, the body, especially in those first two trimesters, right – and I’m sure you all touch on this in your program – but the body’s just doing what it was designed to do, and it’s putting reserves away for that third trimester where in that third trimester, the baby’s going to need all those glucose stores.  So the mom then starts to burn her fat stores, so in those first two trimesters, the body’s preparing for that, and it can just feel a little unsettling if you don’t know that, if you’re not prepared for that.  It can just feel so different.  We just have to find that healthy balance where we’re not undereating and not overeating those processed foods.

Kristin:  Exactly.  So many people that pregnancy is an excuse to fulfill every craving or go get that fast food.  I tell my clients focus on eating whole foods and healthy and nourish your own body and your own baby.

English:  You are my kind of person.  I think sometimes when we utter those words, right, where we tell someone – especially when someone’s pregnant, you don’t want to offend them, so a lot of people think, oh, well, you shouldn’t tell a pregnant mother what she should or shouldn’t be eating.  You should just let her do her thing.  But it really is kind of a disservice because it’s not setting the mom or the baby up for health, and that’s not fair.

Kristin:  I love it.  I mean, it sets the foundation for everything and can really – I mean, there’s so many studies now showing that getting proper nutrition during pregnancy can prevent things like preeclampsia.  I mean, if you’re low in vitamin D3 or vitamin C and so on.  So just really focusing on your health can prevent a lot of issues.

English:  Absolutely.  I mean, our diet, our lifestyle, infections that you came into pregnancy with, stress – I mean, the stress that a mom feels during pregnancy has that – I guess it’s called stress hardiness with the baby and it teaches the baby whether stress comes and goes or whether it’s constant, that kind of thing.  And that can come in the form of diet, too.  So yes, not saying, oh, I’m 12 weeks pregnant; my baby needs a whole chocolate cake.  Hmm.  I don’t think baby is the one that wants that.

Kristin:  Exactly.  Do you ever get into what cravings mean, like if someone’s like, oh, I’m just craving, like, a Big Mac or whatever, and what certain – whether it’s savory or sweet foods, what might lead to an imbalance?

English:  Yeah, so I don’t offhand remember what each of them are, but for sure.  I mean, it goes back to an example I use with a lot of clients to where you can sit down with a bag of chips and eat the whole thing and still feel like you’re hungry, and that’s because those chips are not giving your body the nutrients that it actually wants.  So your body keeps telling you, we’re hungry, and it’s not because it’s hungry for more chips or more calories even.  It’s hungry for those nutrients that it’s not getting.  So when we really honor the body’s signals and start eating a lot of healthy fats and vegetables and fruits and meats and the things that it really does need, the hunger signals can be satiated.  So, yes.  And I think I do have a chart that I use with clients as far as, if you’re craving this, then you need maybe some magnesium, or if you’re craving this, maybe more vitamin C.  And cravings really do – once you start to eat all the whole foods and not so much the processed Frankenfoods, the cravings really start to go away.  At least in the sense of like, oh, my God, I have to have that right now kind of thing.

Kristin:  Yes, I would think so, and I’m sure you work with clients who are dealing with gestational diabetes or other forms, you know, type A and so on.

English:  Yes.  And we kind of can get into a tough position if we’ve let it go for a while, right?  So we have to set realistic expectations as far as how long it’s going to take to really get the insulin sensitivity back, but it’s never too late.  We can always make progress.  But yeah, realistic.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  As you’re working with clients and they’re preparing for the postnatal phase, what are your top tips for simplifying meals, making things easy again, avoiding processed foods, as they’re in the nesting stage and doing all of the baby prep?

English:  Yes.  So one, leaning on the people around you, I find to be super helpful.  Not that a woman can’t do it on her own, but I think a lot of times we as women put all that pressure on ourselves to get it all done, right?  So we are going to birth.  We are going to breastfeed.  We are going to make our own meals and clean the house and do the dishes, and we don’t have to do those things.  We can ask for help, and we should get help, and that’s fine.  And then as far as meals and stuff go, smoothies have always been really helpful.  Things that super simple, like picking a meat; picking a vegetable; pick a fat.  It doesn’t have to be these complicated meals.  Sipping on bone broth throughout the day.  Adding avocados to things, those healthy fats that are really going to help nourish the body are really helpful.

Kristin:  And I always say focus on hydration with breastfeeding moms and snacks throughout the day and don’t limit it to those three meals because then you need to build up your milk supply.

English:  Yes.  You need more calories during the breastfeeding phase than you did during the prenatal phase, right, while you were growing the baby, and society tells us, okay, well, right after you have that baby, you should go back and be back to your prebaby weight.  That’s not – yeah, that’s not – that’s not what we want to do.  That is not honoring our body and our baby, and society just sends us those terrible signals with that.  Because I do have a lot of women that are like, well, I’m X amount of weeks out of pregnancy, you know, since delivery.  Why is the weight not coming off?  And then we have to have that discussion of, that’s because your body doesn’t want the weight to come off.  It needs that weight.  It’s there for a purpose.  So let’s continue eating what we should because depriving our body of the nutrients that it needs is really just going to backfire in the end, anyway.  So it’s there for a reason, and we can work on it later, but forcing your body to lose weight is never going to be the answer, anyway.

Kristin:  Yeah, just to get back into those jeans when you’re not supposed to be working out initially.  You’re healing.  You’re supposed to be resting and bonding with baby.  Yes, but there is – you’re so right, English.  There’s just way too much pressure on women to get back to work, get back to keeping the household, to look a certain way.  And it’s just – we need to give ourselves a break and like you said, ask for support.  I mean, our postpartum doulas, we can do some light meal preparation, get snacks and household things so you can really again focus on rest and bonding.  We offer feeding support.  There are so many other services you can look into, but that’s just one.  You know, hiring a housekeeper is helpful.

English:  I saw a meme that kind of just stuck with me – or we can call it a meme, I guess – that it was like all your friends come over to see you after you have your baby, and they all want to hold the baby, right, but really what we as friends should be doing is doing some housework for the new mom.  Let the mom spend the time with her new baby, and we can help pick up the slack around the house.  And that kind of stuck with me.  We go see this new baby and we want to love on the new baby, but that’s not what we should be doing.  We should be more that tribe that supports the new mom and helps her around the house instead.

Kristin:  Exactly.  Traditional cultures, it’s all about caring for the mother, and of course, helping with newborn care, but really nourishing her and allowing her to heal.  Like looking at Malaysian cultures and, again, other traditional focus on the first 40 days as being a primary time for rest and bonding and nutrition.  If only it were like that here!

English:  I know.  It’s just interesting, the pressures that we put on ourselves, I guess, you know, because you see it around whether it’s a movie or just societal or what have you, the perfect way that you should be.  And it’s just – that’s not real.  It shouldn’t be, anyway.

Kristin:  Yeah, and then like you said, friends asking how you can help, and I find as a birth doula one of the most important things that a friend can do is really ask how you’re doing and allow the sharing of the birth story or whatever is going on or just talking about the changes of being a new mom or having yet another baby and really hearing the woman out versus talking about how cute the baby is.  It’s like there’s so much focus on that new baby, and then the mother can sometimes feel lost.

English:  Yes.  Right?  And there’s not much education – and I’m sure there is, you know, if you’re a doula, right, which is why it’s so important, but if somebody doesn’t have that resource, there’s not much education that goes into how the postpartum period is going to go.  So there’s probably a lot of surprises, and you’re just not sure how to navigate that.  You might feel alone.  You might feel like you’re weird, that nobody else went through this because nobody else talked about it.  So there’s almost a little bit of suffering on your own.  There doesn’t need to be.

Kristin:  Exactly.  The same applies for us.  We love to walk with clients from the moment they conceive through the first year of a child’s life, but if someone has had their baby and they want to reach out to work with you, what does that look like?

English:  Like I said, it’s not like it’s ever too late because those first 1000 days, that critical 1000 from conception to age three is so important for shaping the epigenetics of the baby for the rest of their life.  So we can work through that.  We can work through mom’s health.  You know, even if you didn’t necessarily prepare pre-conception, that doesn’t mean after, we can’t work on those things, especially because pregnancy tends to steal those nutrient stores.  We just kind of work on your realistic goals, right, like if we’re breastfeeding, there’s a lot of things that we’re going to put on hold until that’s finished, which the breastfeeding is going to be more important, right, and that’s fine.  But just getting those minerals back, those nutrients back, working on resting where we can, stress management, adjusting to new life.

Kristin:  Do you have a different focus with twins and triplets as far as working on a plan than you would if someone were pregnant or newly postpartum with one baby?

English:  Yeah, I actually have only gotten to work with one female who had twins.  So that’s not a huge experience that I’ve had.  Now, I will say I have twin sisters, so my mom had twins, and it was baby five and six for her, and I can tell you, she was super nutrient depleted.

Kristin:  I’m sure, yes.  And there weren’t any resources.

English:  Yeah.  Had I had this education now – I mean, I was young at the time.  I didn’t have it.  But so many things I would go back and be like, oh, mom, you really need to work on this because you grew two whole humans.  Or in the case of triplets, three whole humans.

Kristin:  Exactly, and if they continued to breastfeed, then they’re even more depleted than feeding one baby.  So yeah, and obviously, you customize to whatever the needs are: health issues, dietary issues, celiac, and so on.

English:  Yes.  And I did hear that breastfeeding actually cuts the risk of celiac in the babies down, like, some odd 57% or something like that.

Kristin:  Wow, I had not heard that.  That’s amazing.

English:  There’s not much research on it yet, and there’s even less research on how the genetics and the health of the babies changed just in birth, whether it’s vaginal birth, C-section birth, what drugs are used, not used, that kind of thing.  But the breastfeeding – yeah, it cuts down a lot of celiac, IBS, that kind of thing.  Kind of magical, really.

Kristin:  That is amazing.  So any final tips for our listeners as far as focusing, whether it’s body image or anything we discussed?  I’d love to hear your top takeaways.

English:  I think the main thing that I would like to remind everybody is that pregnancy and postpartum is such a tender time, and you use so many resources, and it’s just so beautiful, that we all really just need to cut ourselves not necessarily slack but give ourselves grace, I guess, is how I would say it, and just honor the fact that the body knows what it needs to do.  So fighting it isn’t necessarily what we need to do.  Honoring the ebb and the flow of gaining some weight and that is okay.  It’s going to get us farther in the long run.

Kristin:  Perfect.  Yes.  100% agree.  So English, how can our listeners and our clients connect with you, and what virtual options do you have if our listeners are not located in Kentucky?

English:  They can find me at my website.  My Instagram is @nourishingtreelou.  There is a link on there where they can schedule a complementary consultation.  So we can really just sit down and discuss what stage of life you’re in, what your goals are, that kind of thing.  But everything is really Zoom now.

Kristin:  Yes.

English:  It makes it super easy, right?  And it’s a little different because you don’t get that face to face interaction, but it’s super convenient for anybody anywhere, really across the world, right?

Kristin:  Yeah, you can help anyone in the world now.

English:  Yes.  It is – it’s cool.  It’s definitely a different vision that I had kind of going into business, but I like it, and it works.

Kristin:  Same.  With us, we’ve changed.  We’ve had to pivot.  Many of our classes are virtual, and we’re just going back to some in person and created a course due to the pandemic.  I love being able to reach people outside of our footprint in Michigan.

English:  Yes.  And it’s so different than 20 years ago when people had a business.  It’s cool.

Kristin:  Exactly.  So what’s next for you?

English:  Oh, wow.  Well, in personal life, we’re actually headed – we’re going to try out a couple different cities.  Now that everything is virtual, we’re going to kind of “live” in different cities for a month at a time.  I call it “virtual virtual” because I already see everybody virtually, so it’s just a little bit farther away, maybe, each time.  So we’ll be doing that.  Just kind of continue seeing clients one on one, eventually get back into some group work with some couples.  That’s kind of what’s on my plans.  I’m always open to whatever the world throws at me.

Kristin:  Awesome.  Well, maybe a book will come your way.

English:  That’s really not my strong suit.  I’ve heard that’s a lot of work.

Kristin:  Yes.  We are in the process, so it is a lot of work.

English:  I was going to say your yes sounded like a yes from personal experience.  It’s probably so worth it, but I have heard it is quite the beast to take on.

Kristin:  Yeah.  There’s so many ways to reach people with social media.  I love it.  Well, thanks so much for your time, English!  It was so good to get to know you, and I love all of your tips.

English:  I appreciate you having me on!  This is a joy.  Thank you.

Kristin:  Thanks.  Have a great day!

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

We chat with Jodi Klaristenfeld, founder of FLRRiSH, about navigating the NICU and supporting moms of preemies.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Hello, hello.  This is Kristin with Ask the Doulas, and I am here today to chat with Jodi Klaristenfeld.  Jodi is a preemie mom who understands what it means to be a NICU parent.  She created FLRRiSH as a result of her own personal experiences and stresses as a preemie mom.  Welcome, Jodi!

Jodi:  Thank you, Kristin!  It’s so nice to be here on your podcast and spread the word about preemie awareness for families and just overall parental wellness and mental health wellness.

Kristin:  Thank you for sharing your story.  I would love to start from the beginning with your pregnancy journey and also chat a bit about your postpartum experience as a preemie mom.

Jodi:  Sure.  I had a relatively easy pregnancy for the first 28 weeks, and the next four days were quite difficult.  I was so sick, actually, that when I was in the hospital with my mom, my OB said to my mom, if I have to choose, who do I choose?  That’s how dire of a situation and how quickly my easy pregnancy turned, you know, not so easy.  I had what’s called HELLP syndrome where your body organs start to shut down and you reject, actually, the pregnancy, and it’s best described as the, I’ll say, severe and often deadly form of preeclampsia.  My blood pressure was 190/160.  My platelets were extremely low.  They were giving me platelets, actually, as they were delivering my daughter, and at the same time, they weren’t sure whether they would be able to do a simple C-section or whether I would need a hysterectomy or anything like that.  Thankfully, I did not need a hysterectomy, and thankfully, we’re here today and my daughter’s doing great and I’m doing great.  It just took a while.  I didn’t get to meet my daughter for three days because I was hallucinating from the medicine to help with the blood pressure situation and all the other ailments related to HELLP syndrome.  But at the same time, I was also in no mental condition, either, to see her, as well.  On top of that, my husband happened to have been in Europe because, you know, she was born 12 weeks early.  This was his last business trip he was going to take.  Fortunately, my mom was in town because we were going to do some layette stuff.  You know, pick out some cute outfits and things like that.  But little did we both know that I would be checking into the hospital for an 11-day stay instead, and my daughter for a 77-day stay.

Kristin:  So what was it like to meet your daughter for the first time after you’re getting off the meds and you’ve gone through the stress of labor and early labor?  What was that moment like?

Jodi:  Well, I didn’t have a labor.  I was an emergency C-section.  They completely knocked me out.  That’s how dire of a situation it was.  And insofar as I was still in the labor and delivery room right next to the OR room for three days until I moved to the room closest to the NICU on the opposite side of the floor.  I was that case that the entire floor knew who I was, and I couldn’t quite figure out why.  But when I went to go visit my daughter, I don’t remember much, and that really upsets me to no end, I think because myself, I was still so sick and fragile, and I didn’t know what I was going to see, either.  But I remember that I wanted to take a wheelchair into the NICU, and my husband was like, no.  You can walk.  You can do this.  He goes, I will push the wheelchair behind you or I’ll get a nurse to push the wheelchair, but you are not – because he’s like, I know you can walk the steps now.  And it was probably maybe 10 or 15 steps, so we’re not talking a great distance, but after having had a C-section, first of all, you know.

Kristin:  Major surgery, yes.

Jodi:  Yes, and also just the overall, you know, trauma to my body.  I was just really scared.  But, you know, and I remember seeing her name on her isolette and just crying and my husband saying to me when I got over to the side of the basinet where I could see her better – he goes, “Well, does she look like a Jenna?”  And I’m like, of course she looks like a Jenna!  I just can’t remember much after that.  I think I was just overcome with emotion and so happy to see her and meet her, yet so scared and terrified at the same time.

Kristin:  So how long was she in the NICU, and how many days did you stay in the hospital before going home and navigating the back and forth?

Jodi:  I was in the hospital 11 days, and she was in the NICU 77 days.  It was the weirdest feeling to me to leave the hospital without my daughter.  I couldn’t understand it.  I knew she was in the place where she needed to be to get the care in order to help her survive and grow, but at the same time, I think when most women, myself included, unless you have a history or someone in your family, maybe, that’s gone through something similar, you don’t think that when you’re going to go have a baby that you’re not going to leave the hospital with your child.  You think, oh, I’ll be in the hospital two, three days, you know, assuming everything’s fine, come home with the baby.  And that was not the case by any stretch of the imagination.  So it was a very confusing, you know, time.  I wanted to stay in the hospital, but I wanted to get some fresh air.  I didn’t want to leave my daughter.  And I was also told still because my blood pressure was high that – and this was January.  She was due in April, and she was born in January.  And we live in New York, so I was told if the weather – the temperature got below a certain – like, freezing, I wasn’t allowed outside and I couldn’t go and visit her because it’s a lot more strain on your heart and your body to do work when it’s so cold out.  And they didn’t want me to elevate my blood pressure any more than it already was.

Kristin:  Makes perfect sense, yes.

Jodi:  Yes.  But there were some days like that, and in that first week I was home, there was, I think, two days like that.  And I remember feeling like I was the worst mother.  I already felt like I was the worst mother, you know, that somehow I did this to her.  I caused this.  And then I was thinking to myself, well, all the NICU doctors and nurses are going to think even worse of me because I’m not visiting my child and doing kangaroo care and holding her for hours.  I’m just leaving her there.  But as I got stronger, too, those – you know, that was lifted in terms of the temperature because I got stronger and I got better.  But at first, you know, I had to listen to what all the doctors said.

Kristin:  Of course.  So you’re trying to focus on your own recovery and then, you know, worried about Jenna and her recovery.

Jodi:  Yes.  And just – you know, it’s a feeling, and I say this to people kind of like when you’re trying to get pregnant.  It’s kind of like you have no control.  You can do things to put yourself in the best position to help yourself and help – you know, help your child at this point, but basically, right, there is no reading of a manual.  There’s no spreadsheeting.  There’s no nothing, really, that can help with the process.  Jenna just needed time like all NICU babies.  They just need time to eat, sleep, and grow.  And it sounds so trite to say it that way, but it’s the truth.  You know, they told us to figure she would come home around her due date, and I remember saying to my husband, like, but she’s not due for such a long time.  I don’t understand.  And sure enough, she came home three days before her due date.  I mean, they were right about everything.  And I will say this: special shoutout to all the doctors and nurses in the NICUs, and also my OB.  They’re lifesavers and angels and heroes.  They are people of a personality that is like no other.  The patience to deal with parents in such a stressful situation and to be able to calm the parents down and take care of the children at the same time and provide, you know, some comfort and instruction is amazing.  It’s a special person.

Kristin:  I completely agree.  My daughter was only in the NICU for four days, but they are very special, and I felt so comforted when I left the hospital with my daughter still in the NICU.  But I couldn’t imagine, you know, having a much more extended time period to again go back and forth and communicate.  So what obstacles did Jenna face as she is growing?

Jodi:  When she was first born, and this is what I tell people all the time: do not Google, for this very reason.  There were a host of things.  She had a premature retina of the eye.  She had a hemangioma on top of her head.  She had really bad gas, like reflux, to the point where some days her belly looked like the biggest part of her body.  And she had ASD, also known as atrial septal defect, so that is a hole in the middle chamber of your heart so the blood flows both ways between the left side and the right side.  So of course I took it upon myself to Google what exactly that was, and I went down a rabbit hole.  It was not good, and I told my husband after that I would not Google, and to this day, I still haven’t.  But thankfully by the time she was 18 months old, the hole had closed up, so they did not have to do surgery.  And it was during COVID when – the height of COVID when we had this appointment, and I remember saying to the doctor, like, I really want to hug you right now.  I know I can’t, but I was just – it was like raining down my face because I was just so, so happy to – yeah, and we had to see specialists for her acid reflux.  She had to have an upper GI while she was in the NICU just to rule out, you know, that there wasn’t any type of blockage or something, and it turns out that she needed this special formula to supplement my breastmilk, so with many of the NICU babies, on top of the moms pumping, because you can’t nurse, they add formula to it to help them gain weight and get necessary nutrients.  And it took four different ones to finally find one that worked and her gas, like, went away.

Kristin:  Amazing.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  This was all new to you, obviously, like the terms, and you said that you hadn’t had relatives or friends really navigate this, so it’s a whole new experience.

Jodi:  Yes.  I mean, daily it was a whole new experience.  I was very fortunate in that I was able to be at the NICU every day or at least every day, like I said, except for those beginning days.  And I made sure I was there for rounds in the morning so that I could understand or try and understand what was going on, what they were looking for or not looking for, and ask a million questions of all the doctors because at that point, aside from, like, the specialists, like the pediatric cardiologist or the pediatric ophthalmologist, all the other specialists did the rounds at each of the isolettes, so you can ask a million questions, you know, if you wanted to.  And so I took it upon myself to learn as much as I could because, you know, to your point, there is so many terms, and they use a lot of acronyms, understandably so.  That’s their vernacular, that I couldn’t begin to understand.  And I would write them down in a journal because when they would do the rounds, they would hold the baby.  I wasn’t holding the baby.  So I could write things down, and then I’d ask afterwards, oh, what does this mean?  What does that mean?

Kristin:  And I know you’ve got a download of those terms, which is so helpful, from your website.

Jodi:  Yes.  You know, I tried to make everything actually in laymen’s terms.  I think that’s so important.  Yes, you can ask all the questions you want, but you still also then have to remember that or write it down or something.  So for me, I thought it was helpful to help other parents by providing all of the terms but in regular, general vernacular, not so technical that it would be difficult to understand.  And, you know, I just felt so strongly that I knew I wasn’t the only other mother out there in the world experiencing what I was experiencing and that I knew I somehow had to turn this experience into lemonade, as they like to say.

Kristin:  It’s beautiful.  So tell us a bit more about the programs you run at FLRRiSH and how moms – say they’re on bedrest and they’re anticipating, or they’re expecting twins, triplets, and want to get ahead of the challenges the NICU may bring versus someone who may not, you know, have that awareness that the NICU is part of their journey.

Jodi:  Right.  I think the thing is, even if you are on bedrest and you have that awareness, it’s still overwhelming in and of itself.  You know, I think it’s important to note that, again, even if you have twins or triplets, chances are they won’t be full term and they will have somewhat of a stay in the NICU.  And it’s okay to feel overwhelmed.  It’s okay to feel upset and sad and frustrated.  I always tell people that’s the most important thing.  Allow yourself to feel before trying to learn anything.

Kristin:  Yeah, you almost have to grieve what you envisioned your birth to be like.  I know I had preeclampsia, and as I am in my room without my baby, my first child, and the photographer’s coming in and lactation and I’m getting all of these visitors and there’s not a baby with me – she’s in the NICU.  There is a bit of that grieving, you know, as you’re turning people away, like no, I don’t need photos right now.

Jodi:  Right.  Or, like, I don’t have the footprints, right, that are on a lot of parents’ birth certificates or whatever.  Obviously, that was not important for my daughter’s situation.  So, yes, you’re absolutely right.  You have to mourn that.  And it does take some time.  I want to be clear, and I just want everyone to know that, that it does take time.  It’s not like, oh, okay, this isn’t going to happen for me, and then I’m going to be fine.  You know, you really just have to allow yourself – because once you allow yourself and you can process, then you can move forward.  As with anything in life, right?  Once you deal with something, you’re like, okay, this is what has to be.  You can move forward.  So in FLRRiSH, I wanted to create that for other parents out there.  I know I say moms most of the time, but it’s for moms and dads.  It’s just that dads don’t ask for help, really, the way moms do.  And I also think the particular part about mom guilt or feeling like your body somehow betrayed you and that in turn you betrayed your child is only owned by the mother and that dads cannot relate to that.  But yes, so FLRRiSH offers – first and foremost, there are audio courses.  So there are little stories – right now, they’re only stories of mine.  I’d love to get stories from other women such as yourself, and they’re three to five minute stories, short vignettes, that I envision someone doing kangaroo care, listening to their ear pods while holding their baby on their chest.  Just about, you know, little experiences that I had; good things; some not so great things, how I overcame them, or what certain things mean or how to best help yourself and also become aware of the other parents around you.  Because I say this – one of my closest friends now is one of the moms that I met in the NICU, right, because you’re going through something similar that most people don’t go through, right?  So at least you can have each other, and therein was the crux of FLRRiSH because she and I could talk to each other, but I didn’t know really anyone else outside of that or even who had been through it, right?  So I created these stories in hopes that parents will listen and feel they’re not alone.  They’re not unsupported.  The doctors and the nurses, rightfully so, take care of the baby, but the parents are also left to process their own trauma.  Plenty of parents have PTSD afterwards or, you know, go through their own traumatizing experiences.  They might have to go through EMDR therapy depending upon the situation.  And I felt that if I could just provide some calmness and a voice of reason from a parent perspective, not from a clinical perspective, not any medical advice, but just to be like, hey, I’ve been in the trenches.  I’ve been in the thick of it just like you have.  And you will get through this, and you’re stronger than you know, and your baby is stronger than you know.  So that was important to me to help parents that way while they were actually physically in the NICU.  And on top of that, there are also resources that I have broken down state by state, county by county, where people can find out about early intervention or early start, any of those government programs, because as you know, it’s pivotal to get your child evaluated right away for those services.

Kristin:  Absolutely.

Jodi:  And how to go about doing that in your state and where to go, who’s a provider.  You know, where I live, I was given a whole bunch of information, and I share this story in the course, and the woman said to me, well, I have 30 days to file all of your paperwork, and I’m like, well, just because you have 30 days doesn’t mean you’re going to take 30 days?  She’s like, oh, yes, I can, and I said, no, no, you won’t.  You haven’t me.  Like, this is my child’s growth and development.  It’s my child’s life.  I’m not waiting any longer than I have to.  You know?

Kristin:  Good for you.

Jodi:  So just empowering parents as well and teaching them that they are their child’s advocate.  Their kid obviously doesn’t have a voice just yet, so they have to do the talking for them.  And there’s nothing wrong with being pushy and bossy.  This is your child’s future and well-being, and you just want to set them up for success.  So there’s that piece, and then there’s also one-on-one coaching, I guess, with me, if you want to call it coaching.  I currently talk to about six moms, and I have to say, I find it so rewarding just to hear them say, “Jodi, thank you.  You make me enjoy being a mother.  You understand this situation, and I’m not going crazy.”  To hear that is so rewarding because I know for myself, I wish I heard that.  And so that makes me believe that I’ve created what I wanted to create, right?  That place where parents can go to feel like they’re supported, educated, empowered, and most of all, feel like they’re not alone.

Kristin:  Beautiful.  Yeah, it’s so needed in this world.  I wasn’t aware of resources or courses and programs similar to yours.  So I was thrilled to connect.

Jodi:  You know, I just want to say, with respect to doulas caring for the moms, you know, there’s so much help and so much compassion that doulas have.  It’s another compassionate person who can help moms out through this process, you know, in a different way.  Helping them with their mild production, and even just telling them, you know what?  Kangaroo care is great.  It helps stimulate milk production.

Kristin:  Yes, skin to skin.

Jodi:  I actually loved it.  It was so funny.  My husband and I both tried to do it once we were home from the NICU because we both in a way loved it.  It was kind of special and magical in its own way because I feel like I got to bond with my daughter in a way that I never would have, and I got to experience so many things, you know, that I wouldn’t have otherwise.  And, you know, we tried to both do it at home, and we’re like, yeah, no, not the same.  But, you know, I think also, too, I will say this: my husband was instrumental, and this is where a doula or more of a lactation specialist, too, could have helped, but especially a doula if I had one.  I didn’t even want to start pumping.  I was just so sick, and I was like, no, I can do it.  I can do it.  And my daughter had donor milk at first.  She was not allowed to have my milk because of the magnesium.  So we had to wait anyway.  But I ended up – but my husband found not – there wasn’t – like, the lactation specialist and I didn’t, I’ll say, click in the hospital.  But he found one of the nurses who had recently given birth, and he’s like, you have to talk to my wife.  You have to talk to my wife.  And this is where a doula would totally come in, right?  And I ended up producing so much milk that even after I stopped pumping when Jenna was ten months old, she still had three months’ worth of milk.

Kristin:  That’s amazing.

Jodi:  They say not to keep it more than two months, and I knew I had too much, so I donated my milk.

Kristin:  Full circle.

Jodi:  Not every place would take it because I was on blood pressure medicine for a while, and I guess they didn’t want to necessarily, I guess, give that to other babies, but I found a place that would take it because I felt like I can’t throw this out.  This is like – what do they call it, liquid gold, right?

Kristin:  Exactly.  Yeah, other babies need it.  So I love that you donated, but yeah, some milk banks do have very strict rules, of course.  I’m glad you found a place to donate, and I’m sure the family was so overjoyed, as you were when you received donor milk.

Jodi:  Yeah.  Again, it’s one of those things you don’t think about.  Like, I thought of, okay, blood transfusions, right, but you don’t think about milk coming from somewhere else.  Or at least I didn’t.  And so yes, I was happy to be able to, and like I said, the woman – the nurse helped me so much.  And one thing I did learn, which I thought – I’m kind of small chested, so I thought, oh, no way am I ever going to make a lot of milk.  I made more milk than I – like, I was like a milk machine.  It was kind of funny.  My husband was like, where is all this coming from?  But yes, and I think in that case, especially for me, it would have been so helpful for someone to say to me, you know, just do this.  It’s going to be okay.  Your baby will have – there’s so much going on.  It’s just an added layer of support for women that is much needed.

Kristin:  Exactly.  So how do our listeners and doula clients connect with FLRRiSH?  I know you’re on several social media channels as well as your website.

Jodi:  Yes.  So our full-on website with all the audio and all the resources will be ready by the next month.  We had a few delays.  But until then, they can find me on Instagram @flrrish.  And our website is the same.  They can email me at hello@flrrish.com.  Or through LinkedIn.  I’m always happy to talk to anybody.  You know, any way I can help someone.  You understand.  You’re in the same place, right?

Kristin:  Of course, yes.

Jodi:  You just want to make someone’s journey better than your own.

Kristin:  Exactly.  Sharing wisdom and being a listening ear.  I love that you brought this program into the world.  Thank you very much for sharing your story and your journey.  If you have any final tips for our listeners, Jodi, I would love to hear any last NICU navigation tips.

Jodi:  Yes.  I would just say, please don’t be hard on yourself.  You know, I think as moms, first of all, we think that we have to have all the answers right away, and that is not true.  And don’t be hard on yourself, especially if you don’t bond with your baby right away.  It takes time, and especially if you have given birth early, you have to process for yourself what happened to you before you can be there for your child, and there’s nothing wrong with that.  You know, even in full term babies, there’s a large percentage, something like 18-22% of people that don’t feel instantly bonded to their child.  So know that that is okay.  And to just allow yourself to feel.  You know, there’s a whole host of emotions, and even when someone says something to you that might not be appropriate who’s a good friend, you know, they’re just trying their best to be there for you, and people just say things that, you know, when they can’t think of something else, sometimes something not appropriate comes out.  And just know in your heart that your friends really love you and they just really want to be there for you.  And also, I would say lastly, you’re not alone.  10% of moms go through this every single year.  There’s a whole bunch of us out there, and that’s why FLRRiSH, that’s why Gold Coast Doulas, that’s why there’s so many organizations out there to help you.  You are not alone.

Kristin:  Love it.  Thank you so much, Jodi!  Really appreciate the time today.

Jodi:  Thank you!  I had a great time.

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

Kristin interviews Sarah Ann Kelly.  Sarah Ann is the owner and founder of MomTrainer.  Sarah Ann shares prenatal and postnatal fitness tips and suggests ways to create intentional time for working out.  Sarah Ann is also giving 50% off with the discount code GoldCoastDoulas!

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Hello, hello.  This is Kristin with Ask the Doulas and owner of Gold Coast Doulas.  I’m here to chat today with Sarah Ann Kelly.  Sarah Ann is a trainer.  Her focus is on helping busy women get and stay in the best shape of their lives during and after pregnancy.  Sarah Ann has a fantastic background that we’ll get into, but she is certified as a pregnancy and postnatal trainer from ACOG.  I’m thrilled to have you here, Sarah Ann!  Welcome!

Sarah Ann:  Hi!  Thank you so much for having me!

Kristin:  I’d love to chat more – you have so many certifications – about your specialties and how you support women in the prenatal and postnatal fitness realm.

Sarah Ann:  Sure!  So I’m certified through ACOG, so the American Council of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.  I got certified back in 2007, and I’ve been working with prenatal and postpartum women ever since and teaching all different kinds of group fitness classes from Pilates to boot camp.  I have two little kiddos of my own, too.  They’re like my own little certifications, good Lord.

Kristin:  Yes, having gone through it yourself.  You started your journey as a trainer in New York, correct?

Sarah Ann:  Yes.

Kristin:  And now you’re in West Michigan.  Big change!

Sarah Ann:  I know.  We’ve moved around quite a bit, especially in the pandemic, but we were like, where can we go where we have help?  My kids are 3 and 5 now.  They’re 19 months apart, and surviving that two under two was just a lot.  If you can avoid it, I don’t recommend it.  It was a lot of work.

Kristin:  I get it completely.  My kids are 21 months apart, so yeah, right there.

Sarah Ann:  So yeah, you’ve been through it, yeah.  I mean, now it’s so great.  They’re best friends, and they’re amazing, but we’re just really happy to be kind of settled where we have a little bit more support, which is one of the things we’re going to talk about today, for sure.

Kristin:  Yes.  So Sarah Ann, let’s start by talking about prenatal fitness and your recommendations.  I know you’ve got plenty of exercise tips.  Let’s dive into what women can do in pregnancy to set themselves up for a great recovery postpartum.

Sarah Ann:  Gotcha.  Oh, I love this question.  I mean, the honest answer is so much – again, I’ve been doing this for a long time, and I know every pregnancy is different, so your body is very different from the person next to you.  But I think we have it backward.  We treat pregnant women like delicate flowers who shouldn’t lift anything, who shouldn’t get their heart rate up, who shouldn’t stretch too far, and postpartum people are just expected to, like, you know, start doing burpees the second they get off the table.  And it’s very opposite.  You know, I worked out through both of my pregnancies so I know personally how helpful it is to reduce the bloating and fatigue, and obviously, I’ve worked with thousands of women at this point.  I think the more active you can stay during pregnancy, the better.  They’ve done a bunch of research on bedrest, and they’re saying, like, it’s helpful for very few people.  The more you can move, the better in pregnancy, however that is.  So I use the RPE scale, or rate of perceived exertion, when I work with my clients.  So, basically, from a scale of 1 to 10, 1 is savasana in yoga where you’re just laying on the floor.  10 would be, like, wearing a backpack and running up a mountain.  You want to stay around a 6 or 7, and that’s the end point.  So basically anything that you were doing before pregnancy, or even if you get pregnant and you want to start exercising, as long as you can talk, as long as you can breathe, and that rate of perceived exertion doesn’t go over, like, a 6 or a 7 if you’re a little bit more conditioned pre-pregnancy, you’re fine.  Like, I have clients who train up until they day that they deliver.  I’ve never had anyone go into labor in my classes.

Kristin:  Well, that’s good!

Sarah Ann:  I think for the most part, you can do a lot more than I think we’re often told.  Whereas postpartum, I believe in rest and recovery.  I mean, I don’t want to scare any pregnant people who are listening right now, but, you know, labor and delivery, no matter how the baby gets out, is a big deal on the body, so rather than encouraging women to, like, go back into it as soon as you get that “exercise clearance,” go start working out and get yourself back in shape – no.  Like, recover.  Slow recovery process; make sure everything feels okay; make sure you’re working with a PT if you’re noticing any severe diastasis or prolapse issues.  A slow entrance back into working out postpartum.  But as far as pregnancy goes, I mean, go for it.  For me, again, I worked out every day while I was pregnant, and I felt really, really good.  I know that doesn’t work well for every single person.  I certainly have clients who, the second they hit their third trimester, they’re like, nope, I need to do things where I just lay on the floor and you hand me dumbbells.  So every pregnancy is going to be very different, but as far as the actual guidelines, there are no strength training guidelines anymore, and the old idea to not bring your heart rate up over 140 beats per minute has been thrown out the window because everyone is different, right? A person who’s never exercised before and a marathon runner are going to have two very different experiences exercising in pregnancy.  So you just kind of go off of how you’re feeling in the moment and day to day because in pregnancy, your first trimester is going to feel very different from your third.  So day by day, doing something that moves your body, makes you feel good, and that you enjoy doing, as long as you can breathe and talk comfortably, you’re good.

Kristin:  Exactly.  And Sarah Ann, that flexibility will definitely benefit women during labor and can certainly help get into different positions to optimize baby moving down the birth canal.  There are many benefits.

Sarah Ann:  Oh, yeah, absolutely.  I mean, labor is a marathon.

Kristin:  It is, yes!

Sarah Ann:  You’ve got to be in shape for it!  But also, so is parenting.  When I teach classes, I’m always like, these are car seat muscles, guys.  Your kids are only going to get heavier!  So we don’t have to just play with two-pound weights for your entire pregnancy.  You can lift heavy stuff.  But just learn to do it safely and in a way that will support you during labor and postpartum.

Kristin:  Yes, I love it.  And then of course swimming is so fantastic.  We’re in summer in Michigan right now.  As far as any other tips prenatally or your top exercises, anything you’d like to add on prenatal fitness?

Sarah Ann:  For prenatal fitness, just do what you love and don’t be afraid of it.  One of the most common questions that I get for prenatal is how much weight can I lift, and you really can do about the same.  There is a regression at some point where if you were hiking and running up a mountain – bad example.  If you’re going for a 10, you will need to scale back.  I wouldn’t go for your max repetition at this point, right?  Stay at something where you can breathe.  But just really taking every single day as an opportunity to move but also respecting when your body is telling you to slow down.

Kristin:  So true, yes, and talking to your provider if you want to change anything up.  But I’ve worked with many athletes and marathon runners who ran up until the very end and CrossFit who have continued with that with approval from midwives and doctors and so on.

Sarah Ann:  Oh, yeah.  Absolutely.  Your body is built to move.  And I think also one thing: I do work with a lot of people who are in PT, and going to see a pelvic floor therapist before you deliver if you start to notice any pelvic organ symptoms, like pain peeing or prolapse or pressure, if you start to feel that, go get in early.  And make sure when you go to get checked for your four to six week postpartum, if you need a referral, if your insurance requires it, make sure you get it during that appointment because it’s always just helpful to have.

Kristin:  Thank you for saying that!  I can’t stress that enough, so I’m so glad you feel the same way.

Sarah Ann:  Oh, yeah.  For me too, I worked – I’m very scope of practice.  When in doubt, refer out, to all of my clients.  I would never want to recommend something – because I only work with people on the outside and not the inside.  So if there’s something going on, or if I notice that my client has some pretty significant symptoms, I’m not going to play God.  I’m going to refer them to a doctor who knows more than I do, whether that’s chiropractic or physical therapy or whatever.  I think it’s really important to develop a team of providers during pregnancy so that way you’re just really supported during pregnancy, postpartum, and beyond.

Kristin:  Exactly.  So, Sarah Ann, let’s get into postnatal recovery and your tips on how to transition back into exercise.  I know you mentioned slowing it down, focusing on recovery, and there is that six-week appointment that many women want that clearance to be able to start working out.  So what does that look like?

Sarah Ann:  Yeah.  So again, it really depends on your actual delivery and recovery.  And I’m not saying if you have a C-section, you’re going to have a really, really horrible recovery.  I’ve heard a lot of people have a lot of fear around that.  I’ve had people have a C-section and have way easier recoveries than someone who pushed for four and a half hours and had a forceps delivery.  So I think just respecting where you’re at and just really enjoying that postnatal period as snuggle time, resting, recovery, making sure you’re getting a lot of nutrition.  And then as far as exercise, if it feels comfortable and you’re cleared before you leave the hospital, you’re okay to walk.  I have a lot of breathing exercises that I can recommend on my website if you go to the Postpartum tab.  I have a lot of stuff up there.  But just breathing, gentle pelvic floor exercises, stretching, just light, light movement.  Because I think there is the risk, obviously, of blood clotting and bedsores if you’re just sitting around and not doing much.  So trying to stay moving, even before that four- to six-week appointment, again, in most cases is totally fine because that four- to six-week appointment, I feel like we put so much gold around it, but your doctor is mostly there to check your cervix and your blood pressure, and they might not be the best person to get the complete go-ahead.  And I say that because my OB-GYN for my first delivery did my diastasis recti check incorrectly and almost sent me out the door with a first degree uterine prolapse.  And again, I’m a triathlete, so she’s like, just go back and ease back into it.  You’re good.  And I’m like, okay, so should I run four miles tomorrow or ten, you know?  And so I think just making sure that your provider really knows.  Ask, hey, can you check me for prolapse?  Can you check me for diastasis recti?  And if you can’t, who can you refer me to?  That might be a pelvic organ PT that I can start seeing because I’m noticing X, Y, Z in that four- to six-week period.  So, again, we have to advocate so much for ourselves in our American medical system, and this is just an example of you having to do that, unfortunately.  But go to that four- to six-week appointment.  Ask for a referral, just in case you need it in the future.  Ask about prolapse when they’re doing your cervical exam, if they feel anything when they’re in there.  Obviously, you need to be okay for blood pressure.  And then they’re also going to do the depression screening.  I think you’re okay to start moving if you feel comfortable before then, obviously keeping it very, very light and moderate.  But once you get the go-ahead, it doesn’t necessarily mean like, okay, go back to doing what you were doing pre-pregnancy.  It’s go back to what you were doing in the third trimester, but now you can lay on your belly.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  Great tips!  Sarah Ann, let’s get into finding the time.  So you’ve gotten cleared, and whether it’s baby number one or baby number four, it’s a transition.  So how do you make the space in your busy life to achieve any fitness goals you have or again, for those runners, get back into running and find some time away?  How much time should they be working out, early as they’re starting to get back into it?

Sarah Ann:  So I’ve got a whole list.

Kristin:  Yes, so many questions!

Sarah Ann:  Number one, and I see this in a lot of my clients: you have to make it a priority.  And there is just no such thing as motivation, right?  You just have to keep showing up for yourself.  I think a lot of times we struggle, and I know I certainly did after my two kiddos.  Like, okay, it’s nap time.  I got one down.  I have a toddler who’s running around.  I don’t really want to put them in front of the TV, but I really need to exercise so I can feel better and show up as a parent.  But we don’t really make the same space for ourselves when there are mountains of laundry and phone calls to make and you might have gone back to work at that point.  It’s really hard to make yourself a priority when there are so many other things in your face at the same time.  But I think the more that you just create a mantra to yourself that you matter; you need to take up space; and just respect that you’re in it for the long haul.  It will help you show up for sure.  So I think – because a lot of times when I’m working with clients, I’ll send them workouts and be like, hey, just following up, did you get to that workout?  “No, I had to read a book on potty training.”  Did you get to that workout the next day?  “No, we had to take so-and-so to the doctor.”  There’s so many things on top of your personal health, but I love this quote: “Exercise is the most underused antidepressant in the world.”  It’s not just about your physical health.  It is about emotional, spiritual health.  Just even taking ten minutes to meditate or do some stretching on the floor makes a really, really big difference on your emotional and spiritual well-being.  It doesn’t necessarily mean making your body smaller, right?  Exercise is not just about making ourselves skinny and trying to get the body back.  That is not my intention with this at all.  It is about respecting your body and your space and getting your body back to a way that you feel comfortable moving around in and making sure that you’re strong and preventing injuries and all of that golden stuff.  So there’s just a lot of other reasons to exercise.  Sometimes if we’re just focused on, like, I have to get an hour at the gym of lifting heavy weights – you don’t have to do that every single day.  But I do think just finding the time and making yourself a priority, even if it’s for ten minutes if you don’t have a lot of support that day and then maybe taking a little bit more time out a couple of days later, that’s number one for me, just finding the motivation to move, making yourself a priority to create the space and time to do that.  So that’s number one.  And then number two is just also literally physically taking up space, because I think a lot of us have a hard time getting to the gym or might not feel comfortable going to work out in a physical space yet with other people.  Create a space in your home where you keep all of your stuff.  Whether that’s a basket that you cover with a blanket, or you store some dumbbells under your bed, but just keeping all of your things consistently there so that way when it’s time to work out you don’t have to run all over the house to find equipment is really helpful.  There’s obviously, like, the pack your bag if you’re going to the gym the night before.  But also just creating the space for that bag.  So when it’s time to fold your laundry and you have your workout outfit, you just roll it up and put it in the bag.  Keep socks, keep spare hair ties, keep everything in there, so if you are running out the door to go to a yoga class and your kid is losing their mind and you don’t want them to see you run out the door, you can just do that and you aren’t searching for stuff.  And then one thing for at-home workouts I always say, like, make sure that you’re covering up your dumbbells and all of your exercise equipment because babies and dumbbells don’t mix, and a lot of times if you have crawlers or toddlers, they tend to gravitate towards all of your toys, so just make sure they’re covered so they’re out of sight.

Kristin:  Great tip.

Sarah Ann:  So another thing, number three, creating a routine that can be flexible.  Finding the flexibility throughout your day.

Kristin:  With naptimes being unpredictable or feeding, yes.

Sarah Ann:  Yes, or like someone comes to visit unannounced – although hopefully we aren’t doing that anymore to people.  Just creating a routine and a schedule but also being really flexible about it.  The American Council on Exercise recommends 150 minutes per week of moderate exercise, so meaning like yoga or walking, something on the lighter side, or 75 minutes of vigorous exercise, so like your more high impact classes or workouts.  So you don’t need to do it all in one day.  Don’t feel like you need to do an hour to make it count.  I send a lot of my clients 15- to 20-minute workouts because usually that’s all they have if they’re working and they have little kiddos.  So I think just creating a flexible routine where, okay, I’m going to try to get up in the morning.  If I need to sleep in, I’m going to, and then I’ll do something before bed.  And I think it’s really helpful if you have a partner or if you have any kind of family help to include them in the schedule because it’s really hard to do all this on your own, especially because naps are so – we really struggled with naptime, so that’s like a hot button for me.  I think just creating some flexibility or really getting help in that and just having that conversation around time and boundaries of, like, I’m going to go and shut the door for 20 minutes, and you are in charge of the kids.  Or, can I drop them off so I can go take a class?  Or finding a studio that has childcare.  It’s not all on you, and I think it’s really helpful if you have, A, the accountability of other people, but also just creating that space and taking up the time to say, I need to do this for myself, and I need a little extra help is really important.

Kristin:  Yes, because after giving birth, the focus is on the baby.  And the mother just feels like she’s – I don’t know, not as important, not a priority.  So the fact that your suggestions are really taking the time, making space to feel more like yourself pre-baby, and get stronger versus sacrificing everything a new mother or, you know, again, fourth-time mother.

Sarah Ann:  Yeah.  I think the more help you can get – and you can always partner up with a neighbor, or if you have other friends who have kids, use each other as a village, because I think that’s one thing that we really lost in the past couple years is just using each other to help everybody out because I think that’s the one thing that I loved about my postpartum period is that we had just moved to a new city and I really didn’t know anyone before I was pregnant, but you meet people at the playground or in lactation group and you really get to find your tribe, and I think it’s okay to ask for help because I think we all love helping, right?  If someone called you and was like, hey, I really need help getting to this appointment.  Can you help me out?  Can you watch my kid?  You’re like, yeah, the more the merrier.

Kristin:  Yes, a specific request is where it’s at versus oh, I’m struggling, but you don’t know what you need.  If you can say, hey, I would love for you to join me, or can you watch my kid while I go to the basement and work out for 15 minutes.  Yes, a specific request is so important.

Sarah Ann:  I know, and it’s so hard to do.  It’s hard to make that request because sometimes you’re like, I don’t even know what I need and I don’t want to be in charge anymore.  But even just, hey, can we meet up for a walk a couple times a week so we get in the sun and I’m accountable for getting off my couch and going away from the laundry?  Kind of creating a friend appointment so it becomes a little more than just about the workout is really great.  Obviously, people hire me so I can show them and tell them exactly what to do, but I still think the more support you have, the better.  And it’s okay to ask for help.  Everybody wants to help you out.  The more specific, absolutely, the better.

Kristin:  Exactly.  Yeah, and you had some great tips for our Becoming A Mother students, and that course is all about assembling a dream team, asking for help, knowing your options, because we strongly believe that if you don’t know your options, like physical therapy and even understanding how to install your car seat correctly so we have car seat safety technicians and really understanding who makes up both your personal village as well as your professionals.

Sarah Ann:  I have a couple more if we have enough time, or I can save them.

Kristin:  Yeah, go ahead and give us your final tips and then we’ll chat about your business.

Sarah Ann:  Okay.  So my last two: if you are not feeling it and you are tired and you’re a little groggy going into your workouts, use music.  So find something that kind of pumps you up and start listening to it.  So plug those headphones in while you’re getting ready to workout.  If you’re driving somewhere to exercise, like going to a hike or going to a gym, put that music on in your car so it’s like a little bit better of a transition into the fitness.  They’ve done a lot of studies on music and beats per minute, so find something that’s a little more high energy to get you in the mood if you’re not feeling it.  That being said, please don’t exercise on less than four hours of sleep.  Sleep is really important, and I think it needs to be said that you can regret a workout.  Don’t listen to all those fitness memes on the internet.  They don’t apply to you.  Rest is still really, really important.  So using music as a motivator, and then my final tip is just to find something that you love.  So dance in your kitchen.  You know, go for a walk with some music.  Take a hike, swim, bike, lift heavy things, try acro yoga.  Try to find something that is fun that you really look forward to doing and finding the joy in it because you’re not going to do it if you don’t feel inspired or you’re just not interested in it.  And I feel like there’s this old – I kind of said it before, but using exercise as a form of punishment, and it’s not.  So I think that exercise can teach us a lot of life lessons and goal setting and things like that.  So finding something that brings you joy or makes you feel accomplished and gets you a good sweat on.  It doesn’t matter what it is.  Just find something that you really love to do so that way you’re actually wanting to show up for it.

Kristin:  Perfect.  Thank you, Sarah Ann.  So how do we find you?  I know you mentioned MomTrainer.com, but you are all over socials, so share all the ways that our listeners can chat with you.

Sarah Ann:  Yeah.  So number one, go to my website.  You can reach me there if you have a more specific question.  I’m also mostly on Instagram @themomtrainer.  And if you’re in the Grand Rapids area, you can come take a class with me.  I’m teaching at Mind Body Baby Yoga, and we’re adding a lot more classes.  So I’m teaching some barre classes there, and they also have some really great yoga classes.

Kristin:  We love them!  That’s so great.  Of course, Sarah Ann, you also for our listeners who are all over the country, you have a virtual and one on one classes so they can work with you regardless of where they live.  So fill us in a bit about those, the coaching sessions.

Sarah Ann:  Yeah.  So I do have online consulting, so you can book me for an hour, pick my brain, and I’ll send you a workout.  I have an online coaching program that is a monthly program.  I have a one month and three month jump starter package where we meet once a week and discuss everything prenatal postpartum fitness, and then I create workouts that you can follow along to, so you get a recorded video that you click in your document.  Everyone gets a document with all of their workouts, recap of our calls, any nutrition support, and any kind of helpful PDFs that I might have created for another client, everything goes in there.  So you just literally, you know, what am I doing on Monday?  You click on the link, you follow along.  It’s super easy.  So I have that program as well.  And then I also have a ton of free resources on my website.  I have a lot of free workouts that you can try on there.  And for this specific call, all of my recommendations, I’m putting in a pretty little PDF that you can click on in the postpartum tab, so if you’re like me and you listen to podcasts doing laundry and you just tune out a little bit, it will all be there.  And you can use the discount code GoldCoastDoulas for 50% off!

Kristin:  Perfect.  Thank you so much, Sarah Ann, and it was lovely to catch up with you!

Sarah Ann:  Thank you so much for having me!

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

 

Kristin chats with Jasmine Emerick about her personal struggles with postpartum anxiety and OCD and her work as a therapist.  Jasmine is the author of The Postpartum Therapist.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  This is Kristin with Ask the Doulas, and I’m joined today by Jasmine Emerick.  Welcome, Jasmine!

Jasmine:  Yes, thank you for having me!  I’m really excited.

Kristin:  So Jasmine is an energetic mother of two.  She’s a devoted wife, daughter, sister, friend, colleague, and family member.  Jasmine’s often described as one of the craziest people you’ll ever meet.  She has a heart of gold and a love for people with a passion to support women especially.  Jasmine has almost ten years of clinical experience as a mental health therapist and is trained in treating perinatal mood and anxiety disorders.  Now, I would love to chat about your book, The Postpartum Therapist, a humorous and honest approach to the postpartum life.

Jasmine:  Yes, so as you kind of shared, you know, as a therapist, I’ve been in the field for almost ten years.  I did my first treating perinatal mood and anxiety disorders back in 2011.  At that time, we just referred to postpartum depression and postpartum mood disorders.  Now the terminology has trained.  And then I took training again back in 2017, I believe it was.  Before having kids, I had been trained in this area, and I was like, I’m good.  I know what to look for.  So I’m going to let myself know if I experience anything, and I’ve worked with patients and blah, blah, blah.  Then I become a mom, and it’s different.

Kristin:  It’s not textbook.

Jasmine:  Yes, it wasn’t textbook.  So I was motivated to write my book when I realized how much I had suffered from postpartum anxiety and OCD, and I can help differentiate the two of those later.  But that was kind of what – when I came out of it, I realized how much I had truly suffered, and I was able to relate to women and moms at a level that I never thought I would experience or understand.  And so it started with me just posting a couple things on Facebook about my experience, and people liked it, and people were reaching out to me and they’re like, we want more.  And then I was like, okay, at nap times, right, I’ll shoot out a post of my thoughts.  And I just could not keep up with it, not at the level that I wanted to.  But then I just basically wrote an outline and said, okay, what would I want to share with people that I experienced that I want other women to know they’re not alone, or even dads, to be honest.  I started with an outline, and it turned from a couple pages to more pages and more pages, and I said, I think I’ve got a book here.  So that’s where we were with it.

Kristin:  I’m so glad you got it out to the world, especially not only your experience clinically, but personally, and sharing the personal struggles you have and how you worked through it.  I would love for you to define the difference between postpartum anxiety, OCD, depression, mania, and some of the other terms related to postpartum mood and anxiety disorders.

Jasmine:  So I’ll start with the two that I can relate to.  Keep in mind there’s a plethora of knowledge out there; people that are much more trained in this area than I am.  I’ll start with my experience.  So in my experience and what I’ve heard from moms and what I’ve researched, the anxiety is more of the worries, the concerns, and maybe even some of the physical symptoms: you know, sweating, heart racing, maybe feeling nauseous, feeling flushed.  It’s just the worries.  In my opinion, what differentiates the anxiety from the OCD is with OCD, you have the worries but then you have the compulsion.  So it’s not just that you just worry; you’re acting on those worries.  For me, if I were to give you an example – well, I’ll save that for later.  We’ll let that juicy detail be later.  One of my fears, right, was accidents.  My biggest consuming thing, or one of them, I should say, was my kids – an accident happening.  An unintentional, right, that was my intrusive thought, was that an unintentional accident would happen.  Most likely, if I allowed them to be in somebody else’s care.  So it could be as much as, like, what if somebody was wearing a sweatshirt with a button, and it came unraveled, the thread did, and that button went in their mouth when they cried, but this person was talking and didn’t see that the button fell from their sweater into my child’s mouth and they choked?  So what do you do?  You don’t allow your kids to be with anyone else unless you’re there, or are you are constantly hawk-eying how somebody’s holding your child or what they’re wearing when they’re holding your child.  So the anxiety, you know, you kind of stop at the worry, but in my opinion with the OCD, you kind of start the behaviors of maybe prevention or avoidance to counteract that worry, if that makes sense.

Kristin:  It does completely.

Jasmine:  Then when you get into the depression, you know, people kind of think of depression as feeling sad or feeling depressed, and that can be true for a lot of moms.  You know, a lot of moms will say it’s not what they thought.  You know, they’re not happy; they’re not connecting with their baby.  Some are suicidal.  You know, some don’t want to live.  Some maybe regret the decision of having a baby.  But I’ve also talked to moms that it wasn’t your stereotypical depression symptoms.  It was the loss of self, the loss of the lives that they had before they had their baby.  It was grieving the loss of social interaction, of attending things.  Maybe they’re the first in their group to have kids, so they’re staying out as late as everybody else.  Maybe they’re not attending everything that people in their friend group are.  And so it’s kind of that loss of self, loss of connection with others that brings on that depression.  And then you also have the kind of bipolar, and I forget the stats.  It’s in my book.  I apologize.  But the number of women that end up being diagnosed with bipolar for the first time during the postpartum period.  Bipolar can be kind of tricky and confusing because it kind of mimics the symptoms of depression, but it can also kind of mimic just plain adjustment things, as well as anxiety.  So your bipolar is going to kind of be the changes in mood, which any mom listening or any woman is going to be like, check.  In my experience, again, I want to give that disclaimer, it’s going to be to a level that causes probably distress, discomfort, and potentially, you know, maybe the risk-taking behaviors.  Your stereotypical bipolar might be overspending to the point where it impacts you paying your bills or risky behavior such as speeding or racing when you’re driving or, you know, for some people I’ve talked to, they would go on dates out of state without ever meeting somebody and did it spur of the moment.  Some risk-taking behaviors.  Bipolar postpartum can be kind of that changes in mood that causes probably more distress and things that might be a little bit more risky that you’re doing, maybe not paying as much attention to details, et cetera.  That’s what I would say for that.  I’ll be honest, I haven’t personally experience bipolar postpartum personally, and I also haven’t seen a lot of it when I’ve worked with people, so I don’t want to speak too much on that just because I feel like I haven’t witnessed it enough, if that’s fair to say.  And then as a final diagnosis – well, there’s two more.  The other one that we hear about and that gets a lot of media attention is the psychosis that, yes, can happen.  So the psychosis that can happen postpartum is kind of what you see on the media where it is true.  You know, parents feeling like somebody else is in control of their thoughts, or maybe a higher power wants their children or, you know, sacrificing things for a belief and whatnot.  So that can happen.  It’s pretty rare, and media hypes it up.  But it is a real thing that can happen postpartum.  And then you also have postpartum PTSD.  That’s posttraumatic stress disorder that is specific to the postpartum experience.  So you see this with women that might have a traumatic labor and delivery.  Complications happen, and some people are like, okay, what’s the difference between being anxious about that experience and it being PTSD?  You’re going to notice nightmares.  You’re going to notice fear or avoidance of the place where maybe the incident happened.  You might notice reliving it or reseeing it in your thoughts.  So that’s kind of what might differentiate a PTSD experience from anxiety, would be a traumatic experience to the point where maybe death was likely to occur, harm, you know, significant harm was likely to occur to yourself or someone that you care for.

Kristin:  Thank you for giving us a lot of these definitions because it can be confusing.  You also mentioned the husband and partner’s role.  So they can also experience postpartum depression or anxiety and so on?

Jasmine:  Yes, so this is where I get kind of nerdly excited, if I can say that.  So a lot of people don’t realize that any partner – so dads, it can be – and I have a podcast, as well, so I’ve interviewed an adoptive mother – any person providing direct care to the infant can experience a postpartum mood disorder, which a lot of people have historically thought would only happen to the mom because they thought it’s only hormonal changes that must bring this.  True, there are hormonal changes, but there’s a lot of adjustment for everybody involved.  So yeah, dads, I always include dads or other partners or same sex couples; adoptive parents, foster parents, grandparents at times or other family members that are kind of co-parenting with whoever that person is.  Anyone has a likelihood and a chance of having a postpartum mood disorder if they provide the direct care for that infant.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  Obviously, sleep deprivation for anyone caring for the infant can just bring that out even more.

Jasmine:  Yes.  We talk about that in the book.  Just in mental health in general – I don’t only work with postpartum women or perinatal women; I work with all age groups.  Literally, my youngest patient has been a newborn to my oldest being in their 70s so far, with a plethora of diagnoses.  So sleep you will see, whether you’re a parent or anybody else, is one of the biggest factors to your overall mental health.  So when you add in the sleep deprivation – and this is where parents, and I typically just say moms because I’m usually talking to them – they get annoyed.  “Sleep when the baby sleeps,” or “sleep when you can.”  But even when you do that, it doesn’t account for disrupted sleep.  So healthy sleep from what I’ve learned is consistent sleep without waking for, you know, a reasonable amount of time.  So even if these parents are sleeping in three to four hour increments, it doesn’t cover the loss of healthy sleep.  Now, it’s great if you can sleep, you know, those three to four hours, two to three.  I know when my daughter was born, it was one to two for a long time.  But there’s still going to be a deficit there, and that is going to impact functioning.  It’s going to impact your mental health.  And so that’s a huge factor that when I’m working with parents to see how can you get sleep, but also understanding that it might be really unrealistic for them to get good and healthy sleep, at least initially in the postpartum phase, and I personally experienced hallucinations after the birth of my second daughter because our one daughter wasn’t sleeping well through the night, and then we had a newborn that had some acid reflux issues and had to, you know, sleep upright, but she was waking up frequently.  So between two kids not sleeping well, that’s severe sleep deprivation to the point where I did start to hallucinate.  It was one week where I had just seen whatever, you know, black images or, like, stars that weren’t there, and it wasn’t from being dizzy.  I was like, okay.  I’ve got to get this sleep under control.  In my book, I tell you what I did to get sleep, which is something that I never thought I would do, but I ended up co-sleeping because it was the only way my acid reflux daughter would sleep for longer periods of time was upright on my arm, and it was something I was terrified to do.  As someone who was experiencing postpartum anxiety, and my fear of accidents, you know, this was against what I wanted to do, not from a judgy, like, you shouldn’t co-sleep, but just from my own well-being of having a conscience of being able to sleep would be like, don’t co-sleep.  You’ll feel better, you know.  You’re not putting your kid at risk.  But unfortunately, that was how I was able to regain sleep, so I did research, and there’s a lot of – you know, there’s websites out there if you feel like I did, like co-sleeping might be the best option for your family right now.  So that’s how I ended up.  I just had to make that choice of, okay, I truly need sleep.  This is to a point where it’s not okay, and for me, that was the best way that I could get it at that time.

Kristin:  And it sounds like you wouldn’t have felt comfortable even with an expert postpartum doula coming into your home due to some of the fears or, like, the buttons or caregivers having an accident and so on.  We do work with a lot of sleep-deprived families with day and overnight support, and that certainly helps, even with daytime stretches of sleep.

Jasmine:  I think to be honest – and if I look at now, I would say, heck, yeah, I want a doula.  Help me out.  I want all the help I can get.  I think if I were to think about then, the biggest barrier would have been lack of knowledge, more or less.  So as long as I was present – well, and this is what you’ll have to educate me on.  As long as I was present and I could micromanage, I did okay.  But yes, I guess you’re right; if a doula were to have been, like, go get some sleep, I have the baby.  I probably would have been like, no, that’s okay.  Let’s watch TV together.  You’ll energize me socially, and that will be fine.

Kristin:  And we do that.  I mean, every day can be very different.  Sometimes it’s newborn care.  Other times it’s mothering the mother and really focusing on their emotional needs or companionship when the partner or husband is away, and then we do light housekeeping and meal preparation during the healing phase or honestly any time, and sibling care.  So for some of our clients who didn’t want anyone else to hold their baby, we were still able to be helpful.

Jasmine:  Then I think all moms need a doula, or all families need a doula, absolutely.  Because those things are essential.  They really are.  I’m laughing about it, but it’s essential.  And if you look at other cultures, that’s what happens, right?  That’s where we get the phrase it takes a village because if you look at village societies, that’s what would happen.  You would have several women around, and I can say women because historically it was.  You would have several women around to help with all those, meal prepping or physical care if there was injury, helping with the home.  So the mother was being taken care of.  And we just don’t see that as much in our society with families moving away and people being more independent, and we’ve lost that for our moms, and now we’re wondering, why do these moms feel like it’s so hard or they feel so alone?  Well, a lot of them don’t even have grandparents in the picture if people have moved away or sisters, close friends.  We’re kind of losing that community aspect of the postpartum experience and expecting moms to get that – you know, take care of all their own needs independently now, and then they’re asking themselves, why can’t I do this?  Well, we didn’t used to.  We didn’t used to have to do this all by ourselves.

Kristin:  Exactly.  And depending on the culture, it’s caring for the mother in the first 40 days.  In some, it’s six months.  Some even longer.  And you’re right; it’s family members, friends, anyone in the community, focusing on their emotional needs and the household tasks as well as the newborn.  So yeah, that is a very important thing that is lacking in our culture here in the US.

Jasmine:  Yeah, we have a close neighbor from Bangladesh.  I had talked to her one day about the differences and what she was seeing with me versus her own experience, and she’s much older than me, so I’m sure it’s even changed in her country since she’s been here.  But, you know, she was saying that she had two or three people in her home that were paid that helped to do all the meal prepping, to take care of her baby and her other child, to allow her to sleep, to help with the household tasks, to get things done, to do laundry and cleaning.  And I’m like, oh, my goodness, and I just fantasized about it for a minute.  Like, what would that look like here in Zeeland, Michigan for me?  I would love it, but we just don’t see it as much.

Kristin:  No, we don’t.  So what other tips do you have for our listeners and clients about caring for yourself in that postnatal phase or identifying signs of postpartum mood disorders?

Jasmine:  One of my biggest things that I wrote about is in the chapter Slipping Through The Cracks, and what I realized with talking to a bunch of friends – because once I realized I was suffering, I became this open book and talked to as many people as I could that were comfortable and willing to talk and just got some feedback.  What we noticed is many of us had a diagnosis; definitely would have qualified for a diagnosis, but kind of slipped through the cracks.  We kind of went untreated and suffered silently for a long time without even realizing it.  And so one thing that I make sure to let moms know, and I say moms here because they’re typically the ones given the questionnaires, is the questionnaires that you get at your checkups or after you have your baby or even at the pediatrician’s office – don’t count on them to be the determinant of your mental health.  So if we think about the Edinburg or the other depression screening, people kind of think, okay, if I pass these screenings, then I’m good.  Right?  I’m good.  Nothing was picked up.  Well, that’s true because a lot of my symptoms and a lot of the symptoms that I’ve talked to other women that we experience were not things that would have been picked up on your questionnaire.  My close friend who had body dysmorphia and was grieving the loss of her life and independence – those weren’t the questions that you’re asked.  She’s like, well, no, I don’t want to harm my baby.  No, I don’t want to cry.  I’m happy I have my baby.  I’m happy I’m here.  I’m not sad.  I’m not crying.  But she still was really struggling with the changes of her body.  So some people think, okay, if I “passed” this questionnaire, then I should be good, and that’s not true.  How do you feel?  You know, what’s it feel like day to day?  I know for me, a lot of the questions for the anxiety that are brought up in the postpartum questionnaires use the term – what is it – unreasonable worry or something along those lines.  Something that makes it seem like, you know, you shouldn’t be worrying.  Well, that’s going to kind of deter a lot of moms from answering that at times because when you’re a new mom, it feels reasonable to worry.  So when you see questions that say, you know – I forget how it’s phrased, but something about unreasonable worry – those questions didn’t screen for me because in my mind, I have an infant in the winter during flu season, during RSV, so my doctor is telling me I should be worried.  My doctor is telling me not to go in big social places.  And this is before the pandemic, even, so imagine that.  For a lot of these moms, having babies during the pandemic.  A lot of these screenings won’t pop up because we’re told we have to worry.  We leave the visit with a whole page worth of things to make sure you do this in your home and make sure you’ve done this and make sure you baby proof that.  So when you use those words, it can distract the mom from feeling like I should answer this positively or yes because no, I’ve been told I need to worry.  A lot of those questions didn’t ring for me or have a red flag because as a good mom, you worry, right?  You want to make sure your home is ready for a baby and they only have a crib sheet and all these things.  So I tell people, yes, answer the questionnaires, absolutely, because a lot of people do get screened on those positively, and that’s good.  We want that.  But there’s a lot of people that are missed.  How do you feel?  What does your partner say about you?  Is your partner noticing anything?  Allowing your partner; having the conversation before that baby is brought into your home, allowing your partner the freedom to let you know when something’s up and opening up.

Kristin:  So helpful.  They know you better than anyone else, so they can tell the change.

Jasmine:  Right.  And a lot of partners that I’ve talked to – because I told you, I became an open book and I talked to dads and everybody – you know, a lot of partners will say, well, they’re the mom.  This is kind of natural for them.  I just kind of follow their lead.  I guess I was just kind of assuming they would let me know.  Well, for me, even being a therapist, even having the training, I was so blinded by my own mental health that I didn’t see it.  And let me tell you, another big fear that I had as an intrusive thought was somebody abducting my kids.  I was looking out the windows multiple times at night.  My daughter was born in January so there was snow.  I was looking for shoe prints outside our windows.  That is classic anxiety OCD that is completely unrealistic.  Even I, doing those behaviors, it didn’t ring to me.  It was like, no, you have a baby.  This happens.  You’ve heard about it on the news, so it can happen.  You start to justify if you’re really in the thick of it, and you really might miss it yourself, even with the best of intentions.  I didn’t want to go undiagnosed.  I talked to my partner before we had our daughter.  Hey, I have a history of anxiety.  This might really flare up when we have our daughter.  Still, I didn’t catch it.  So I just tell people, how do you feel?  Listen to your partner.  Listen to your friends.  If you can, allow open dialogue because they might see it before you do, and just believe them.  If they’re good-natured people, if they’re people you’ve trusted and you’ve loved, just believe them.  I don’t think they’d have harmful intent.  There are harmful people out there, I’ll give you that.  There’s harmful family members.  But I’m saying if somebody that you love and trust is giving you feedback, then believe.

Kristin:  Yes.  So how can our listeners who live all over the world find help in their area if they are experiencing any perinatal mood disorders, whether it be support groups, online resources, or finding a therapist?  What should they be looking for?

Jasmine:  My go-to site is Postpartum Support International.  I did all my training through them, and that is where I go to refer everybody because they have ways to search for therapists locally.  They have online support groups for people all over the world.  They’re basically, in my opinion, your kind of go-to website to get connected, to get support.  They have a help line.  They have all sorts of resources and are kind of the leaders in this field.  So that’s simply where I would refer people if we’re thinking about just in general, if anybody is listening all over the world, would be to go to Postpartum Support International.

Kristin: Perfect.  And then when searching for a therapist, or if they’re getting a referral from their provider, what sort of specialties should they be looking for?

Jasmine:  For anyone interested, I say to make sure they are trained in postpartum mood disorders or perinatal mood and anxiety disorders.  If you go to that website, they will give you a list of clinicians, many of which can do telehealth now, thank goodness.  From the pandemic, that has been a benefit is allowing access that way.  Anybody that’s been trained through that program, and I believe they’re the only program that can train people, at least right now in the United States, to get that, to say that they’ve been trained.  So if you look, that’s where you’ll get a list of therapists that would meet that specialty and criteria for being trained in postpartum mood disorders or perinatal mood and anxiety disorders.

Kristin:  Perfect.  So Jasmine, how can our listeners connect with you personally as well as your book?

Jasmine:  My book is on Amazon, so you would just go to Amazon and type in The Postpartum Therapist, and then my name, Jasmine Emerick, and it will pop right up.  I do have an email, which is postpartumtherapist@gmail.com.  I’m on Instagram.  This was new for me, so I’m a little bit older in regards to being friendly to Instagram, but I’m learning.  So I started an Instagram that is specific to my book, so that would be another way to connect.  Then I would say if you just want to listen – one thing I did – the reason why I did a podcast was because what I learned is even though we’re all moms and maybe we can attach these labels of “I had postpartum anxiety” or “I had postpartum depression,” many of us experienced it very differently from each other, so I wanted to interview different moms to show that my experience is not representative at all of all of us or even many of us.  We all have our unique experiences.  Another thing is that if you search on iTunes The Postpartum Therapist, I have a podcast that I’ve started where there’s many moms on there that share different backgrounds, different diagnoses, and what they’ve experienced as a way to help connect and kind of fill the gaps and help moms realize they’re not alone, no matter what their symptoms are.

Kristin:  Wonderful.  That’s a great resource for doulas, as well.  Thanks so much for your time, Jasmine.  It was so great to connect with you, and I appreciate all of the important work you’re doing.

Jasmine:  Thank you so much.  I appreciate it.

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

 

Krista Lockwood, founder of Motherhood Simplified, shares her top decluttering tips for new moms to prep for the arrival of a new baby.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or anywhere you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Welcome to Ask the Doulas!  I’m Kristin, and I’m here today with Krista Lockwood.  Krista is the founder of Motherhood Simplified.  Krista teaches decluttering for moms who don’t want to be a full-blown minimalist.  In 2013, she and her husband moved from Alaska to Florida with only one suitcase each.  While she doesn’t believe you need to go to that extreme, Krista’s been able to master the balance of having enough but not too much.  Welcome, Krista!

Krista:  Hi!  Thank you so much for having me.

Kristin:  I would love to hear a bit about your journey to get into owning your own business focused on simplifying and downsizing all the clutter that, especially as moms, we tend to accumulate.

Krista:  It started when my husband and I moved from Alaska to Florida, both born and raised, and at the time, we had three kids, and we moved with just our suitcases.  And we rented a furnished house and basically had a chance to start over.  At that point, I didn’t know that decluttering was a thing or minimalism or simplifying.  I had no idea.  We just knew that logistically, it was very expensive.  It was actually more affordable to start over after our move, so that’s what we chose to do.  And I lived that way for about four years.  You know, we reaccumulated stuff, but never to the point of where it was before when we lived in Alaska.  It wasn’t until 2017 when I got pregnant with our fourth baby, and I was a part of a due date group, which I’m sure your listeners know what that is, or they might know.  They’re just dedicated Facebook groups for moms who are due at the same time.

Kristin:  They’re so fun!

Krista:  Yes!  Oh, my gosh, they are so much fun.  And we all got really close.  After we had our babies, in the postpartum phase, we started doing this thing called house tours.  It was so much fun.  A lot of us were struggling with, like, the messes and the laundry and the dishes and the toys, and when it got to be my turn, they were like, hold on a second.  Did you stage your house?  We all agreed we would show it as is.  It was then that I started to realize what we had actually done.  My first postpartum phases were not like that.  I wasn’t able to just sit on the couch and breastfeed my baby and focus on my recovery and rest and take naps.  I was constantly doing laundry, dishes, trying to keep up.  And I started to put the pieces together.  We got rid of all of our stuff four years ago, and that’s when it got easy for me, even in my postpartum phases.  I just asked them, do you want me to show you how to do this?  And then, heck yes, please do, and that’s how I got to where I am now.

Kristin:  I love it.  You saw a need, and you filled it.  It’s perfect.  I find that our students in our Becoming a Mother course and our doula clients are overwhelmed with the registry process and all the things that people want to gift, especially to first-time moms.  What are some of your suggestions to minimize all of the things so you don’t have the clutter to pick up?

Krista:  I was the same way with our first three kids.  I felt like I needed all of the things.  A swing and a bouncer and – I don’t even know.  There are so many gadgets out there, and then when you get on a registry, it’s so easy to just click “add.”  Add to the registry!  And not really think about how it will be used and if there’s an alternative or if it’s even something that will actually make your life easier after you have the baby.  With my first baby, I had no idea what those things would be.  To a degree, even after my second baby, I had no idea because having two babies is completely different than having one.

Kristin:  Exactly.  It’s so different.

Krista:  But after our fourth baby, we had decluttered.  We had lived that way for a while.  Everyone in the due date group thought I was kind of the weird one because I was like, I’m not going to buy all that stuff this time.  I’m going to get a car seat.  I’m going to get a small amount of clothes and a really nice baby carrier that’s really comfy.  I don’t know if you have a recommendation, but I love the Lenny Lambs.  They’re so soft.

Kristin:  My kids are 10 and 9, so I think that might be a newer product.  But I loved the Ergo and the Moby.

Krista:  Yeah, it’s similar.  Instead of it being like a canvas, it’s like a really soft linen, but still strong, so it’s more flexible.  They’re really nice.  But I knew the basics of what I needed, and then I decided that after they were born, I would get things as needed.  I did find that with having three older kids and a dog, having a small bouncer-type chair where I could set her down quickly in moments and her be safe was worth getting.  But I think sometimes we get so much in preparation mode that we get all of these things, unsure of if we’ll actually need them, and then that becomes overwhelming because the house is full of all of this stuff.  Ultimately, then we have to end up cleaning it up and shifting it around our houses and making room for it and rearranging it.  I would say just basics: food, clothes, a way to feed the baby, a way to keep the baby safe and held so that you can still move around, and then wait and see what you need as things come up.  Even toys.  There are so many baby toys out there.  You don’t even need toys or any of that.

Kristin:  And people love to buy toys and high chairs and things that aren’t needed until a baby is older, so again, they’re sitting around taking up space in your home and causing more clutter, which for many people, causes anxiety when you look around at the clutter.  It can be very stressful.

Krista:  I know for sure that was my experience with my first three kids.  Having all this stuff around me and then feeling obligated to use it and then missing the window for actually being able to use those play mats and stuff because it goes so fast.  And then noticing a really big difference after having our fourth and then our fifth baby without all that stuff and just my ability to be with my baby.  I think that’s one thing that I learned, too, with a lot of the gadgets and things unintentionally – I’m not going to say that all gadgets are this way, but it really took away from my ability to be with my baby.  It was like, I have to play with these things.  I have to show her this.  I have to do all these activities and stuff instead of just laying with her.

Kristin:  There are so many things.  Like you said, the gadgets, the orbit and different things that are computerized and can occupy your child so you can clean and reduce clutter instead of, again, bonding and holding your baby or putting them down to sleep and so on.  I love it.  So you’ve had completely different experiences, it sounds like, from your first couple of kids and to now as far as the experience in your household.  What was your plan for your last baby in that nesting phase?  What were you doing to prepare for the change in your family?

Krista:  Baby number five was born in 2019, and I remember that first round of two under two being so hard.  I could handle one just fine, but then when the second one came, it was like everything I thought I could do went out the window.  And so with this fifth baby, I was preparing to have two under two again, and the majority of my focus was to get systems in place in my house with my older kids.  There were expectations of the chores that they were responsible for, making sure that my house was pretty easy to manage with one adult, and I wanted that to be my focus because my husband works a lot.  So I thought that if I could reduce the workload down to one adult, I would have a better chance of being able to really recover as well as possible because I was just crossing my fingers that I’d survive two under two again.  And I’ll be honest, two under two is really hard, for me anyway.

Kristin:  It was for me, as well.  I went through the same thing.

Krista:  Yes, you understand.  It just feels like the workload, not including day to day stuff of groceries and meals and cleaning up messes, just quadruples.  My focus was on mentally preparing myself for that and making my house as simple as possible, setting up those systems, but really just preparing myself to be ready to do the absolute bare minimum for about two years.  I’m at the tail end of that now.  How I’m even able to be here with you right now – she’s two and a half now.  It was really preparing myself mentally to be okay with it being a very low-key season where I’m not doing a lot of things outside of taking care of small children, being tired, and trying to sleep, and focusing on those kinds of things.

Kristin:  As far as your business model, take us through what it would be like to work with you if a client of ours or a listener is interested in setting the stage before they have their first or next baby, and then walk us through what it might look like in the postnatal phase, if they’re hearing about you and they’ve already had their baby and they really need to get things organized and in order.

Krista:  I’ve actually had a lot of moms come to me when they’re pregnant and wanting to do this before they have their babies.  Under the assumption that you have a healthy pregnancy – obviously, you’re tired and dealing with all of that – I always recommend doing as much as you possible can before the baby gets here because I feel like once the baby is here, it’s just a different kind of workload, a different kind of 24/7 job for you, especially when they’re teeny tiny.  I want moms to be ready for that.  I want them to clear the space from their homes so that they can be ready to just have that around-the-clock time with this tiny, super sweet baby, which I miss, to be honest.  But I always recommend starting with the areas of your home that are going to have the most impact.  Things like your kitchen, your dishes, having less dishes overall so that they’re easier to keep up on, going through your pantry and making sure that you’ve got food that’s not expired, those kinds of things.  Laundry, because laundry can pile up very quickly.  Decluttering and simplifying laundry.  And then if you have other children, going through and simplifying the toys and crafts and whatever it is that you have for them.  What I’ve found for me specifically is the more kids I have, the less stuff and toys and crafts we can really manage.  We still have enough to meet the needs and desires of our family, but when we had three kids, we have, like, four times as many toys as we do now with five kids.  Part of it, I think, is because we just don’t fully understand how much we actually need and use on a regular basis, but also, they play with each other, and that part gets easier.  But those are the areas that I have them focus on first just because those are the most common areas of the home that can get very overwhelming.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  I agree on the toys.  Family members and friends, and kids start having birthday parties where friends attend, and it gets to be overwhelming.  I always have my kids donate before Christmas or a birthday before they get more toys.  It’s like, what are we giving back so we can make space for new things?

Krista:  That’s a good rhythm to get into, as well, for them so that they know kind of, like, we only have so much room.  We don’t have room to keep everything that we get every year.  But then I think your next question was what about for afterwards.

Kristin:  Exactly, yes.

Krista:  One of the reasons that I do recommend doing it before you have the baby if at all possible is that if you have family and friends who are willing to come and help – I know not everybody has that – it does make it a lot easier for people to come into your home and do simple things.  You know, help out with the dishes or help out with a load of laundry.  For me, I’ve often felt embarrassed about the way that my house was, so I didn’t want people coming over and being like, oh, wow, she’s quite a mess.  Decluttering and simplifying it just made it easier to accept help when people did want to come over.  If you don’t get to it before baby, it’s totally okay, as well.  I still would recommend focusing on those areas because you want to maximize the effort that you put into decluttering the things that are going to have the most impact on your days, and the most important thing is to not overdo it because you are healing in so many ways.  You do have time, and if you can find someone who can give you just tiny little bite-sized steps to take that will help you clear things out of your home efficiently and maximize your effort, that’s really great.  Of course, you can also just look around your house and ask yourself, like, what would be the best thing for me to have less of?  Have less laundry or clothes; have less toys; have less dishes.  Just kind of take note of that and figure out how you can give yourself some relief.

Kristin:  I love it.  So helpful.  And as you said, it makes it easier for others to help after you’ve had your baby if they don’t need to ask you where to put things and things are simplified.  Some of our clients have a parent or friends stay with them during that recovery period if their partner is working quite a bit during that time.  It makes it easier to have company.

Krista:  That’s an important note, too.  Even if they aren’t coming to help you with dishes or something like that, we have social needs, as well.  I found myself with my first babies kind of isolating myself because I was embarrassed to have people over unless I did a whole lot of work to prepare my house.  Not that anybody cared, but I cared.  But then I was also so overwhelmed that it made it difficult to leave my house and go meet people at other places because I’m like, there’s so much I have to do at the house; I can’t go anywhere.  I really love, as much as possible, to help moms and make this easy for them so they don’t end up being isolated or feeling overwhelmed or taking time away from being able to bond with their baby because they’re cleaning up these messes or just trying to get ahead in their house.

Kristin:  Exactly.  So what are your top three tips for listeners, Krista, if they want to make some change or hire a consultant like you to help them simplify?

Krista:  I would say just start with one thing.  This is something that we do inside of our Facebook group every now and then where we just share literally one thing that we’re going to declutter.  Maybe it’s something that’s been sitting on your kitchen counter that you’ve been avoiding for a long time.  Maybe it’s some dishes.  Maybe it’s a pile of stuff that’s been sitting on your stairs.  Literally just one thing, because that will get your momentum going.  I think a lot of times the hardest part is when we think about what we’re supposed to do, and then we think about it forever, and it’s so exhausting until you actually just take one step.  You’re like, oh, that wasn’t so bad, and then you can take the next one.  That would be my first tip.  My second tip would be start – just do declutter your spice cabinet, just to be really specific.  Go declutter your spice cabinet, or if you don’t have that, under your kitchen sink.  If you go declutter one of those spaces, there’s not a lot of sentimental stuff in there.  You can do it while you’re making dinner or when you’ve got a spare five minutes throughout your day.  It’s all pretty simple stuff to get rid of, and it will give you a quick win.  It will make you feel like you’re making progress and like it’s not so scary to declutter and not so daunting.  I think sometimes when we think about decluttering our houses, we just see the whole house.  It’s like, oh, my gosh, it’s going to take forever.  If you can just do a tiny little thing, it feels a whole lot less daunting.  And the last thing that I would recommend is to just find some kind of a community who can help you along, right, who understands it.  If you’re a mom or if you are pregnant and about to become a new mom, find a mom group who knows about decluttering and can relate to you and will totally validate and understand the feelings that you have when you’re just exhausted because you’re pregnant or you just had a baby and your house is overwhelming, and they can brainstorm with you and strategize and just let you know you’re not the only one who feels that way.

Kristin:  And you mentioned you have a Facebook group?

Krista:  Yes, I do.  It’s called Motherhood Simplified (The Group) and there’s about 40,000 moms in there right now.  We do monthly challenges.  We’ve got a really good system for asking questions and giving feedback.  It’s really respectful.  Very high-level, wonderful moms to learn from.

Kristin:  I love it.  And then how else can our listeners get in touch with you?  You’ve got a website.  You’re on Instagram?

Krista:  Yes.  If you go to my website, you’ll find everything there.  I’ve got a bank of blogs and free guides and podcast episode and courses.  Whatever you consume or use, you can find it on my site.  You can join the group there.  It’s all right there.

Kristin:  As far as course options, what would you suggest for our listeners at this point if they’re pregnant or newly postpartum?

Krista:  I have a course called Decluttering Simplified, which is a step-by-step process to help you declutter your house start to finish, one step at a time in sequential order.  It’s how I decluttered my house and then for the last three and a half years, it’s how I’ve helped other moms declutter their houses.  I’ve given them the program, had them go through it, gotten feedback so I could adjust it and refine it.  I would recommend that.  And if you want something less intensive, if you don’t want to do the whole entire house, I do have a toy course.  You can do just the toys or just the clothes, just the paper, because those are the top three that I get requests for.  That’s where I would recommend.  It’s all created from the lens of motherhood and understanding that we have limited time, limited energy, and we still want to make a lot of progress with the time and energy that we do have.

Kristin:  Exactly.  And you mentioned sentimental items.  When I think of paper, I think of my kids’ report cards and cards that they made us or drawings, and there’s just so much that builds up when you get into sentimental paper products related to your children and wanting to have memories for them to take to their own homes one day.

Krista:  Yeah.  You want me to share kind of how we do it real quick?

Kristin:  Yes!

Krista:  So we have five kids, and we have tons of paper.  Right?  They come home with school projects and all of that stuff, and a few years ago – actually, maybe four or five years ago, I had, like, three bins of papers and crafts and all these special memories, and I decided to go through it with them.  What we found when we started going through it was that a lot of it was not special.  Nobody could remember what it was or when they made it.  So we went through and really got to curate our collection of the memories that we did want to keep, and we condensed it down to about one large Rubbermaid bin.

Kristin:  So much better.

Krista:  Yes, and it feels so much better because we go through it about twice a year.  At the end of the school year, we’ll go through it again, because we add to it all year.  We’ll go through it again, and it’s really fun because everything in there is like a museum rather than an archive where it’s stuff that we really love, and we laugh about it, and it’s fun to revisit.  Then we do it again at Christmastime because the box is near our Christmas décor, so we just pull it out for fun.  So if you do have boxes of papers, I would recommend just going through it with your kids and revisiting stuff.  I’ve found the weirdest stuff in there, too, like a flyer for some fall festival.  Like, why would we keep that?  It’s such a weird thing to keep.  But yeah, go through it with them and have some fun.  See what they remember and see what you remember.  The other thing that I’ve found, especially when my kids were young, was that a lot of the papers and crafts that I kept were definitely things that were made by adults and then put my kids’ names on it for Mother’s Day and stuff, which is totally okay, and we kept some of them, but some of them, I was like, you know, we have so many other nicer things that really look like you made it.  So how to handle the kid paper, which I know is a big deal for a lot of families.

Kristin:  It sure is.  Thank you for your tips, Krista!  It was so great to chat, and I will be checking out your Facebook group and getting on my spice rack, for sure.

Krista:  Thank you so much!

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

Sarah Thompson, author of Functional Maternity explains what maternal functional medicine is and the role nutrition plays in pregnancy and birth outcomes.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Hello!  This is Kristin with Ask the Doulas, and I’m joined today by Sarah Thompson.  Welcome, Sarah!

Sarah:  Thank you!  Thanks for having me.

Kristin:  You are a certified functional medicine practitioner, and you’ve got 15 years’ experience, correct?

Sarah:  Yeah, that is correct.

Kristin:  I’d love to hear more about why you got into specializing in reproductive care, fertility, pregnancy, and postpartum.  Of all the specialties that you could choose, why are you passionate about maternity care?

Sarah:  Well, I think like most people – in my profession, I’m an acupuncturist by trade before functional medicine.  I started off in sports medicine, pain management, and pregnancy was not something that was even on my radar.  And it wasn’t until I actually became pregnant with my first child that I became fascinated by the internal workings of pregnancy.  It was basically an understanding of my own body that I was like, oh, I have to know how this works.  This is so cool.  Why didn’t anybody tell me pregnancy was so cool?  And I immediately decided then and there that I needed to shift my focus because this is where my passion was.  The other thing that drove me was the fact that there weren’t many practitioners offering any sort of alternative care for pregnancy.  Most of the care, obviously, is through OB-GYNs and through midwives and the conventional medicine practice.  And I remember having questions for my midwives, who were fantastic midwives, but they didn’t have the answers, and they kind of struggled with, I don’t know, maybe there’s a book you can find to read on it.  And I didn’t really love those answers.  So I started doing my own diving and my own research and kind of discovered the functional medicine route even through that experience as well and even within the functional medicine realm, there wasn’t a lot of specialization within the reproductive.  Definitely some into the fertility side, but nothing on the maternity side.  And to me, maternity care is probably the most important specialty there is because it’s the beginning – it’s where everything culminates, right?  What a mother does not only influences her health and that pregnancy, but the next generation.

Kristin:  Exactly.  And of course, I mean, as an acupuncturist, you’re already working with women in pregnancy, and they’re coming to you for relief in a variety of conditions or potentially wanting to avoid induction or get baby to flip and so on.

Sarah:  Absolutely.  Acupuncture offers a number of different clinically supported benefits in pregnancy.  We can use it to reduce hypertension.  We can use it to facilitate labor, which is pretty cool.  Flip breach babies.  There’s a number of things that we use acupuncture for.  The cool thing about the combination between acupuncture and functional medicine is functional medicine is that foundation.  It’s how nutrition plays into what we’re asking the body to do with acupuncture at a nutritional and biochemical level.  So I always tell people, I can tell your body to do something with acupuncture, but if the foundation is broken, then it’s not going to work.  So looking at labor induction, with acupuncture, I can tell the body to make prostaglandins and to make oxytocin to facilitate natural labor, but if that person was magnesium deficient or vitamin A deficient or deficient in the nutrients that go into the production and the function of oxytocin and prostaglandins, it’s not going to happen.  And that’s where functional medicine comes into that.

Kristin:  So you look into the lifestyle, and I’m sure you do very lengthy intakes with your patients about their nutrition.  So how does that process work when you’re accepting new pregnant patients?

Sarah:  Sure.  So we offer a couple different options.  I have a functional maternity package, which is unlimited functional medicine appointments, and we follow women through their entire pregnancy and for three months postpartum.  The earlier I can work with somebody, the better.  I kind of joke with my patients and in interviews like this, that everything in pregnancy is preparing.  And oftentimes, what we’re working on in a specific trimester has less to do with that trimester and more to do with preparing for the next trimester.

Kristin:  Makes sense.

Sarah:  So with the functional maternity package, the earlier we can get somebody in, so first trimester, right, the better we can set them up for success throughout their entire pregnancy.  We also offer pre-conception appointments where we talk a lot about the nutrition and the functional aspect of how the ovary and the sperm and everything comes together to support that first trimester.  And that’s not part of the package.  That would be separate, just because some people struggle with conception, and that can sometimes take longer.  But we are always basically trying to build off of in each phase in that pregnancy gestation cascade.

Kristin:  And as far as nutrition, do you have different recommendations based on history or a guideline for each client based on what their current diet is and so on?

Sarah:  Absolutely.  So we do have – I have handouts I give to patients all the time that are the generic dietary guidelines for each trimester of pregnancy and things that I want them to focus on, foods I want them to focus on.  But that’s also modified based off of the individual.  So a mother who may have PCOS prior to conception, she might need a different nutritional pattern and guidelines than somebody who didn’t.  Or if somebody struggled with conception – they had recurrent miscarriages; they carry MTHFR genetic mutations that change the way their body processes the latent B vitamins and those sorts of things, then they’re going to need a different guideline than just the generic guideline.  So we have our generic that basically will say things like, this is what’s happening in the maternal body at this time.  This is what we’re looking at in fetal development.  These are the things we focus on in a general trimester guideline.  But for you, because of this, we’re going to add these things in.

Kristin:  Makes sense.  And then with gestational diabetes and other conditions, then you would, of course, focus on those specific needs?

Sarah:  Absolutely.  Yeah.  That definitely changes some of the guidelines when somebody pops up with gestational diabetes or preeclampsia and some of these more severe conditions.

Kristin:  Yes.  And you are also an author, so how did you manage a busy practice and taking on a book project, which is huge?

Sarah:  It was a huge project.  It was a lot of fun.  It was something that I had had in the back of my head for years, and it was a resource and a guide that I was hoping, you know, somebody else would write.  You know, following my mentors and these things and going, okay, so when are you guys going to write this book?  Okay, we need this resource!  And finally, somebody said, just write it.  And I said, all right, I will, because we need it.  We need this out here for people, whether it’s a practitioner or a mother who just conceived or somebody who’s looking to conceive.  The book was designed to be an introduction to the use of functional medicine and nutrition in pregnancy care.  So it’s a little bit more in depth than just your kind of general guide to pregnancy and nutrition.  We dive very deep into the inner workings and biochemistry and physiology of the maternal body and how nutrition plays into these different biochemical processes.  So it’s a little bit more in-depth, but definitely something that a pregnant mother could pick up and read and get a lot of information out of, as well as a practitioner.

Kristin:  And how do we find your book?  It’s available on Amazon and a variety of places.  Are you in bookstores, as well?

Sarah:  I will be in bookstores.  If you go to your local bookstore and request it, they can order it for you.

Kristin:  Great!

Sarah:  But it is primarily right now on Amazon.

Kristin:  And the title for our listeners?

Sarah:  The book is called Functional Maternity: Using Functional Medicine and Nutrition to Improve Pregnancy and Childbirth Outcomes.

Kristin:  That’s great.  So do you have any future projects in mind beyond book number one, or what are you working on outside of your practice?

Sarah:  We are looking at maybe creating some courses based off the book that are designed for practitioners and for expectant mothers that guide into a little bit more into the different conditions or general nutritional guidance for pregnant moms, so that’s something that might be popping up this summer.  We’re also contemplating our own supplement line at this point, something that has been brought up and requested from numerous practitioners at this point.  So we’re diving into the world of possibly setting up a supplement line based on functional medicine and maternity care and the research behind it.  So those are some things to keep an eye out for.  And on the website, we do have a blog full of articles, and there will be some free e-book downloads on there.  I have a pre-conception and fertility e-book that will be available as a free download on there, hopefully in the next couple of weeks.

Kristin:  Great!  We’ll share that for our listeners in our notes.  So as far as – you not only take patients, and are you doing both in person and virtual right now, or how are you practicing?

Sarah:  We have – our practice runs in office and virtually.  I have patients all over the world, actually.

Kristin:  It would seem like that, from your website, yeah.  That’s fantastic.  So Michigan clients can access you virtually?

Sarah:  Absolutely, yeah.  And we have patients as far away as Australia and Canada.  We follow them through their pregnancy and guide them through nutrition and functional medicine if things pop up.  It’s something that definitely can be used for people who are just looking to support a natural healthy pregnancy and for people who are experiencing complications.  It’s a great avenue for all people in any type of pregnancy.

Kristin:  Sarah, how does one, if they wanted to find a practitioner to go in person in their area, how do you best recommend finding a functional medicine practitioner?

Sarah:  With those who are pregnant, it gets really hard, simply because the functional medicine trainings do not offer, really, specialized maternity care.  I don’t know many practitioners out there who have additional training in supporting pregnancy with functional medicine.  And it’s something that I’m trying to change.  That’s one of my missions is I would love to see functional medicine practitioners doing a little bit more in-depth training in maternity care simply because a lot of the things that we do in functional medicine can’t be done in pregnancy.  A lot of the testing that we use is different in pregnancy.  I like to use an example that I also mentor practitioners around the country, as well, and I had a functional medicine practitioner from another state contact me slightly in a panic that he had run heavy metal testing on a woman who was in her third trimester, and copper levels had come up elevated.  And he was wanting to come up with a protocol to bring her copper levels down without causing complications within the pregnancy.  A lot of the supplements that we would use for that are contraindicated in pregnancy.  And I had to stop him very abruptly because having elevated copper levels in the third trimester of pregnancy is 100% normal.  And in his training – he had not done additional training in pregnancy support and these different physiological changes that occur in pregnancy that, outside of pregnancy, could be considered toxic patterns, but in pregnancy, are 100% normal.

Kristin:  Okay, so he was in panic mode –

Sarah:  He was, and it was 100% normal.  And if he had done that, he would have caused complications within that pregnancy.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  It’s so great that, not only are you mentoring, but you plan to further education functional medicine practitioners.  I do find that even in my work as a doula, there aren’t a lot of specialists.  There are so many other healthcare practitioner referrals that we can make, but very few really specialize or have the knowledge base around maternity.  They might have a focus on, say, gestational diabetes if they’re a naturopathic doctor or a functional medicine doctor and so on, but as far as other conditions, they don’t have that background.

Sarah:  Yeah, and if somebody was looking for a practitioner in their area – you know, a functional medicine certification is an adjunct to a medical license.  It’s not its own separate, you know, licensure.  It’s off of a license.  So finding a practitioner whose base licensure is specialized in pregnancy care definitely would be – like a midwife or an OB-GYN or an acupuncturist who specializes in pregnancy.  Those sorts of things, a naturopath who specializes in women’s health, might definitely put them in a better advantage to find somebody who has the additional training and the additional knowledge in these different aspects of maternity care.

Kristin:  Makes sense.  So I’m curious about your approach in the postnatal phase.  That is also a specialty of yours and something we’re very passionate about at Gold Coast.

Sarah:  You know, postpartum care is often neglected.  I think the conventional medicine world kind of says, well, you had a baby.  Good luck.  We’ll see you in six weeks.  You’re doing great.  Keep going.  Where we know that the maternal body, the baby itself, they are still in this hormonal pattern of pregnancy postpartum, and we have the fourth trimester, what we call it now, those three months postpartum.  And that’s why with my functional maternity package, we include those three months postpartum as part of that package, because there is a lot of maternal change that happens very quickly during that time frame, and it is definitely still a phase hormonally of pregnancy.  And so we do monitor, especially the first six weeks; we’re talking to patients every week postpartum, typically.  Checking in, seeing what’s changing, how’s breast milk, how are we feeling emotionally, and discussing what is happening in her body so that she understands what’s normal and what’s not and how we can do things to support those different changes in the body.  Things like thyroid hormone changes that occur postpartum, the drop in hormones and why and why that happens; changes in breast milk production; how do we support that.  And any time we’re looking at postpartum, we have to go backwards.  It’s that preparing for preparing aspect.  What’s happening in the postpartum phase oftentimes isn’t because of what a mother is doing in the postpartum phase; it has to do with what happened in the third trimester and during the birth itself.

Kristin:  And I’m sure there’s a lot of focus, for mothers who choose to breastfeed, on their nutrition and water intake and so on?

Sarah:  Absolutely.  Yeah, one of the things we focus on a lot is something like vitamin D.  That’s kind of one of my examples I use a lot.  Newer research shows that the current recommended daily allowance of vitamin D is 600 international units, and that is far from what a mother actually needs in pregnancy and significantly less than what a mother needs postpartum.  The demand for vitamin D goes up quite a bit in the postpartum phase if she is breastfeeding.  So babies need, when they’re breastfeeding, about 400 international units of vitamin D, and for a baby to get that through the breast milk, a mother needs to consume a minimum of 6,000 international units per day in her diet.  That’s a lot of vitamin D!

Kristin:  It is, especially if you live somewhere cold and you’re not getting it from the sun.

Sarah:  Exactly.  And like I said, the current RDA is only 600, so far lower than what newer studies are showing that women need.  And this changes from that pregnancy phase to postpartum phase.  And so we actually need more in the postpartum phase than we did in the pregnancy phase.

Kristin:  And then is that also a focus with preeclampsia?  You mentioned preeclampsia earlier.

Sarah:  Yep.  So we look at a number of things with preeclampsia, and interestingly, every nutrient known to man, a deficiency in those nutrients is associated with an increased risk of preeclampsia, yet the treatment of preeclampsia once it occurs, treating with those nutritional deficiencies, fixing those nutritional deficiencies, doesn’t improve the symptoms as dramatically as we would expect, and it’s because the damage has been done.  A nutritional deficiency in the first trimester or pre-conception coming into the first trimester and second trimester changes placental development, and if that placental development gets shifted into a dysfunctional pattern, then now we have the increased risk of developing preeclampsia sometime in the second and third trimester.  So we can’t fix damage that’s already been done, right?

Kristin:  That makes sense.

Sarah:  And so people who come to me with acute preeclampsia, really, our goal is to keep that woman pregnant and healthy as long as we can, knowing that this is a progressive disease.  I have patients who come to me wanting pre-conception help for a second pregnancy or a third pregnancy where a previous pregnancy, they had preeclampsia, and they’re wanting to prevent it.  That’s our preventative phase is that pre-conception first trimester phase.

Kristin:  That makes sense.  I had preeclampsia with my first and then was focused, like the moment I found out that I was pregnant, on trying to prevent and seeking alternative practitioners and hiring doulas.  Yes, so that makes a lot of sense.  And many of our listeners are not aware of eclampsia and some of the effects after having baby and how to manage that, as well.

Sarah:  Yeah, I think there’s definitely, as you know, a great myth out there, delivery cures preeclampsia, and that’s not the case.  It is a progressive condition, and a lot of women experience postpartum symptoms of the disease.

Kristin:  Yes.  And so as far as treating patients – now, I know that, obviously, optimally, it’s better to work with you from the point of conception, early, but what about those patients who are struggling in the postpartum phase, or they’re dealing with eclampsia or other conditions?  How do you work with them and manage not having the time to really get into what they’re deficient in and so on?

Sarah:  And sometimes we do.  Like, we can still run lab work.  We can figure out, is it a vitamin D deficiency?  Vitamin D deficiency is associated with an increased risk of so many pregnancy complications.  But we definitely do crisis management, is what we’ll call it.  All right, here’s what we’re going to do.  We don’t have time to do a lot of the stuff.  We’re going to do these pretty hefty protocols sometimes, and it depends on the patterns, right?  HELLP syndrome, for example.  One of the classic things that we see with HELLP syndrome is the filling of hemoglobin into the maternal blood flow from the baby.  The placenta is dysfunctional, and fetal hemoglobin pops into mom’s blood, and that’s why we see increased hemoglobin levels in HELLP syndrome.  It’s not that mom is now making more hemoglobin.  It’s that baby’s hemoglobin is now flooding her system.  And that creates a whole cascade of complications.  Sometimes we’ll use supplements, right?  Here, we’re going to give you this manganese and this super oxide because we know that it helps to treat the iron toxicity associated with that spilling of hemoglobin.  So it’s an acute management of that scenario with what we can do, with the idea of preventing more extreme complications.  Sometimes we can get those complications to reverse, even, in the lab work, which is really cool to see, and it’s always fun to surprise physicians.  They’re like, wait, how did that happen?  We’re like, oh, it’s functional medicine.  It’s really cool.  You should look into it.  And we do those sorts of things with the idea of, again, this is a progressive disease, and our goal is to mitigate it as much as possible to get mom and baby further into gestation so that we have a more viable pregnancy.  So we do crisis management, and sometimes the things that moms don’t love, right, it’s like, I want you to eat liver every single day, and they’re like, no, I don’t want to do that.  That’s what we’re going to do.  Or things like, I want you to have – sometimes it’s simple things that don’t sound like they do a lot, but they do.  Things like, I want you to have a glass of milk at every meal, and I want you to eat five eggs a day.  And there’s methodology to why we do this, but it’s kind of this really quick, intensive dietary approach that floods her body with specific things that we need to help mitigate this dysfunction.  So yeah, we work a lot with crisis management, things like small for gestational age babies and intrauterine growth restriction.  That’s something we work with quite a bit in that kind of third trimester type stuff where it’s like, oh, I went in, and my baby’s growing three weeks behind; what do I do?  Those are things that we hammer certain nutritional protocols with the idea of understanding that something is happening between the placenta and the baby or something’s happening in mom’s diet that is limiting the amount of nutrition that can go to baby.  And so we have to kind of figure out the why behind it.  The key to functional medicine is understanding the why.  Why is this happening?  Not just here’s the band aid for it, but we have to understand the why.  Is it narrow blood vessels in the placenta?  Is it something that happened in mom?  I’ve had a couple of cases just in the last couple months of, oh, moms who’ve gotten COVID at certain times of gestation, and when they’re done, their baby is smaller, and that’s something we’re definitely seeing, and it’s something we have to treat.  So when I have moms who pop up with COVID, we have a protocol to help prevent that change in placenta and fetal growth.  So there’s a lot of things that do become crisis management in pregnancy, and we are limited on time.  One of the downfalls of working sometimes in pregnancy is that we are limited and the maternal body changes so much from trimester to trimester, month to month, week to week, that you have to understand the different physiological and hormonal changes that occur throughout gestation, the nutritional components, and how that changes your treatments, how that changes your approach to that individual as they come in.

Kristin:  Makes sense.  Well, we are running out of time.  Any last tips for our listeners as they’re navigating pregnancy and the postpartum phase?

Sarah:  Absolutely.  So, you know, there’s all sorts of different diets out there, and I don’t prescribe to any one dietary theory.  I believe in nutrition; individual nutrients; what they do in the body.  And we see from study after study after study that diet is key to pregnancy outcomes, fetal development, and postpartum recovery, and if I had one single tip to give to the moms out there who are listening, it would be eat a variety of whole foods.  And it seems so simple, but it’s something that is often times very difficult.  80% of women of reproductive age aren’t even eating the minimum requirements for vegetables, and that’s where our vitamins come from.  Primarily, it’s from the vegetables and the legumes and the plant-based foods that we eat.  And something as simple as switching to whole foods, kind of cutting out the processed stuff as much as possible, really does have a big impact pre-conception, first trimester, pregnancy, postpartum, the whole gamut.

Kristin:  And any tips on protein intake?

Sarah:  Yeah.  Protein is important.  We need lots of protein, and definitely in the prenatal diet, we focus a lot on protein.  And I have patients who eat meat, and I have patients who don’t eat meat.  And we can easily get the adequate amount of protein that we need in pregnancy, but it’s just making sure you do get the protein.  Legumes are protein.  Nuts and seeds are proteins.  Obviously, meats.  Obviously, eggs, dairy, cheese.  All those things really do play a part.  I’m not anti any food.  I think all foods have a place in the diet.  We’ve just lost a lot of our traditional knowledge on how to use certain foods, and I think it’s important that people know how to properly use foods in the diet.  You know, things like legumes needing to be soaked before you cook them and things like that really unlock the nutrition within those foods, as well.

Kristin:  I’m so thrilled to have you as a resource, and I look forward to connecting again in the future and sending clients your way.  Sarah, would you recap a bit about how our listeners and clients can find you?  I know you’re on Instagram and some other social media platforms?

Sarah:  Definitely, we have social media.  Instagram and Facebook, we are at functional.maternity.  And we have a website.  From there, there is a link on that website to access the clinic, Sacred Vessel Acupuncture.  You can use either website to communicate with me.  I always offer a 15-minute free phone consultation for anybody who is interested in becoming a patient before they ever schedule, so that’s something that’s nice because people have a lot of questions about functional medicine and what we can offer and specific conditions, so I think it’s nice to be able to get that free phone consultation and just ask some basic questions beforehand.  And like I said, the book is Functional Maternity.  You can find that on Amazon, and then you can also request it at your local bookstores.

Kristin:  Perfect.  And you can find information on your website about the book, as well?

Sarah:  You can, absolutely.

Kristin:  Thank you so much, Sarah!  Have a great rest of your day!

Sarah:  Thank you.  You, as well.  Thanks for having me.

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

We talk about Pilates with Emma Jory of ePilates Online shares tips on how to take care of your body in all four trimesters.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Welcome to Ask the Doulas.  I’m Kristin, and I’m excited to chat with Emma Jory today about how to take care of your body in all four trimesters.  Emma Jory is an international certified Pilates, barres, and Hatha yoga instructor.  She’s also a certified health coach, online instructor, and specializes in women’s health, specifically pre- and postnatal programs with over 17 years of teaching experience.  Emma is the creator of ePilates Online, an online global fitness business, and she’s the former owner of Emergy Pilates Lounge in Sydney, Australia.  In 2014, she sold the business and launched her ePilates Online business.  She connects with over 40,000 of her members by offering 300-plus classes and builds a community to help them transform their health.  Emma’s been featured in Parenthood and Pilates Style magazine.  She took the stage as an expert professional at Malaysia’s Murfest and Sacred Postpartum Summit and was a podcast guest on The Purpose Effect and Conscious Connections.  Emma lives in Malaysia with her husband and pups.  Welcome, Emma!

Emma:  Hi, Kristin.  Thank you so much.  Lovely to be here.

Kristin:  So excited to chat with you about four trimesters.  Most people only think of three, but I would love to hear your take on postnatal prep and what your focus, both prenatal and postnatal care, for women is all about.

Emma:  Nice.  So true; a lot of people don’t pay enough attention to the fourth trimester, that’s for sure.  It is definitely an important time for women.  I actually teach women to prepare their bodies for birth during the first, second, and third trimester with exercise like Pilates and yoga, but also a little bit of mindset coaching, which is all intertwined, as well as meditation.  It’s important to prepare the body, but then as you say, look after the body and your mental and physical wellbeing in the fourth trimester because you are a new mom.  Obviously, you are – some are new moms; obviously, not everyone, but you are taking that change in your life as well as the baby’s.  So it is important to recognize that.

Kristin:  So as far as preparation, fitness, and as you mentioned, the mental preparation to get your body not only ready for birth but for that healing time.

Emma:  Yeah, because technically – you know, we don’t think about it like this often, but really, the body has gone through trauma.  It’s like having an injury.  Often, it can be – you know, some people have more effects in their body than others, but the body has changed, and to recognize that change is really important, to not rush back to exercise too quickly, because if you had an injury, for example, in your shoulder or your knee, you wouldn’t go back into a normal level of exercise perhaps that you were doing prior to your injury.  So I like to get my clients to think of it that way so that they do take regaining the exercise routine back steady and they don’t rush into things too quickly because you can actually do – not damage as such, but, you know, you can do a little bit more detrimental affects to your body than if you did take it slowly.  Working from the inside out and letting your body recover is really important.

Kristin:  So true.  I feel like women are in a hurry to get back to their size pre-birth and just get into fitness routines, and it’s challenging for them to wait until they get clearance from their doctor or midwife.  So very good advice.  So I’m fascinated by Malaysian healing traditions.  Would you like to share a bit about the 40 days and rest and nourishment?

Emma:  Yeah, it’s interesting.  I know you’ve spoken to Valerie from The Mommy Plan.  I know Valerie here.  I met her Malaysia, and she’s into all of the Malaysian techniques, as well.  I’ve actually been very lucky and blessed to have learned a lot about these postpartum healing methods while living here in Malaysia for the last eight years, and it definitely has become a passion of mine, the postpartum period even more so of a passion to help moms because I’ve seen how much the local culture here really does embrace this fourth trimester.  They really take care of the mother like she is just as important as the baby, if not more in some ways, taking care of her mentally, because I think it’s missed a lot in Western culture.  We tend to rush back to work.  We think we have to get back to normal tasks of everyday life whereas we do take this time to heal; we are definitely going to be in a better head space to look after our baby.  And a lot of the techniques they use here, a lot of massage, specific foods that they like to eat that are very nourishing; they have a lot of techniques around binding the stomach muscles and the stomach area, but also putting on heat packs and creams, using different herbs.  It’s a really beautiful process, and a lot of the women actually have someone come into their home to actually do all of these treatments for them, so they’re very lucky.  And it’s something like once a week or once or twice a week, even.  Some of them even have people living in.  So they’re really well looked after here, and they make it a big focus, which is – I think we can learn a lot from that.

Kristin:  I agree.  Mothering the mother is so essential, and you are correct, I’ve learned so much from Valerie and her books and lectures and so on.  I would love to hear more about your online program, if you’d let our listeners know a bit about what that involves and how they can join anywhere in the world.

Emma:  Oh, yeah.  So I have been teaching postpartum and prenatal women for many years.  I’ve been teaching Pilates for 17, and throughout my whole journey, I’ve been teaching mums through this period.  And I have helped a lot of women face to face, and there was a lot of women that I couldn’t get to see because my schedule was so quite busy and full.  I felt like I really needed to be sharing this information and these techniques with more women.  And this is actually – this online program I created for postpartum women and prenatal, as well.  I actually put together before everyone was sort of going online, so it’s been a well-received program for many years, and it helps to regain the body back after giving birth in a safe way.  It helps to strengthen the pelvic floor.  It’s safe for women who’s given birth probably – sometimes even women will start as early as six weeks.  It’s very gentle.  It’s safe to do.  Some even earlier.  You know, I’ve had some ladies actually do the breathing and connecting of the pelvic floor muscles and deep abdominals earlier on like four weeks because it’s very gentle, and sometimes the sooner the mothers can do that if they’ve had, especially, tearing or even a C-section, as long as it’s feeling comfortable and there’s no pain, they can do that gentle engaging to help actually recover from the scar tissue.  It helps bring blood flow back to the area.  So the program helps with restoring the body, also after Cesarean, and it’s in a functional way, as well, so you are not just doing Kegels where you’re just squeezing the pelvic floor muscles.  You’re actually doing gentle movements, pelvic curls, cat-cows, those sort of movements, and that’s really great to have that functional movement, not just connecting the pelvic floor.  So it’s a three-month program, and it’s tailored for women who’ve just given birth, so it gives the content in a weekly, I guess, delivered format, so you don’t progress any sooner than you should, than you’re ready for.  It’s basically the same program that I would teach my clients if I was going in face to face to teach them.  So it’s a really beneficial program, not just for women who’ve had babies recently but I’ve also had ladies who have done this program and their baby’s 20 years old, and it’s still helped their pelvic floor.  It’s really good, and it’s not normal Pilates.  It’s – yeah, different style.  It’s also using – releasing the fascia, so if anyone has a diastasis, as well, it’s really great for repairing diastasis.  I’ve had a lady who – or quite a few ladies I’ve helped repair that; many, actually, but a couple who were recommended surgery, and they had a four to five finger gap, their diastasis.  And we got them down to two fingers after just a couple of weeks, even, two or three weeks, which is far better than having surgery.  So it’s a great program for all those conditions, even pubic symphysis pain, as well.  So it’s definitely a really great healing program.

Kristin:  Sounds like it.  So glad that you were thinking of doing something online before the rest of us.  We just launched an online course called Becoming A Mother during the pandemic, and I feel like there are so many more online options, but you thought of this, you know, so far in advance.  So it’s a beautiful resource.

Emma:  Thank you, and I did see, yeah, your amazing program, too.  It looks fantastic.  You’re helping women in such a great way.  I love that.  It’s so important to give women the guidance during this time because I think so many women can feel alone and unsure of what they’re doing.  So I love what you’re doing.  I love your work.

Kristin:  Thanks!  So you have a supportive community in addition to the courses, correct?

Emma:  Yeah.  I actually – I have the pre- and postnatal focused programs, and I also have another program that is Pilates for women who are a little – obviously, you know, not going through the changes as pre- and postnatal, so they may be getting into more cardio style or strengthening and toning.  I have that program, as well, and I do have – yeah, I’ve got a Facebook community of about – nearly, I think, 45,000 people now, which is growing and quite amazing.  Yeah.  I run regular challenges, and yeah, it’s quite an exciting online studio, really.  I’m very proud of all my members and the clientele I’m helping around the world.  It’s wonderful.  It’s incredible what you can do, actually, still online.  So a lot of people are getting some great results.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  I will share that with our Becoming students and our doula clients.  What a wonderful resource.  So as we recently interviewed a client, and she had a successful VBAC after a Cesarean, and she really raved about the benefits of using Pilates throughout her pregnancy and how that really helped her prepare for a vaginal birth after Cesarean.  So it’s great timing that I’m talking to you.

Emma:  Yeah, absolutely.  It’s quite powerful.  And just to have that body awareness, I think, as well.  You know, if you haven’t done a lot of that mind-body connection work prior to giving birth, you may not be as, I guess, as prepared as you could be.  You know, once you start to go down that path of really understanding your body when you’re in the situation, which obviously you know all about – I don’t need to explain that to you, but you really are – not necessarily in control, but you have a little bit more control over your breath and mind and what you may do if you didn’t practice some of these mind-body connection practices.

Kristin:  Exactly, yeah.  And she is a big fan of the barre method and used that in recovery as well, and all through pregnancy.  So I would love to hear what’s next for you.  You’ve got so many achievements, but I’m sure you’re planning your next release into the world, whether it’s a book or a new program?

Emma:  Oh, yeah.  It’s true, actually.  I have a lot of my clients asking me about weight loss, and I am a certified health coach, and I tend to give a lot of free advice, you know, just helping my existing clientele around that.  And they keep asking me, you know, can I help them more, and it’s something that I’ve decided to put together.  Not necessarily weight loss, but an inch loss program, which will be hopefully coming out this year at some point.  It will really be – I don’t believe in looking at the scales.  I think that’s why I wouldn’t want to call it a weight loss program, but it will be inch loss, so I think it’s a little bit more about how our clothes fit on our body as opposed to what we weigh on the scales, what the numbers are.  It will be a lot around mindset.  I’m quite big around being kind to ourselves, loving ourselves, and that’s all part of the journey of weight loss.  I have come from a background of myself with an eating disorder when I was younger, so I know too well what it’s like to be monitoring my weight, but I feel I’m in a really good place in my life now at 47, turning 48 soon.  You know, I have had fluctuations up and down, and really now I’ve really embraced my body and love it and still believe in a balanced attitude towards our diet.  I believe in the 80/20 rule.  We can still indulge.  We can still eat the things we love.  I’m a chocolate fan, and I don’t mind a wine.  So I fully believe in that and not depriving ourselves because once we start to do that, that’s when we want things more.  So really helping women through that journey and making lasting changes, not just following a diet for a short period and thinking that’s – they have to reduce what they eat or those sorts of things.  But incorporating an exercise program alongside what the individual needs, because I think often we do – often, we over-exercise thinking we need to do that to lose weight, and often if we’re already stressed, we can be having the opposite effect.  You know, if we think we have to do a lot of cardio or strenuous exercise, we’re actually putting more stress onto the body, which can often have the opposite effect, and we can hold on to weight.  And there’s a lot of reasons behind that.  You may have already heard all of those, but it’s driven by hormones.  The stress hormone is called cortisol, which is released when we’re stressed, and so that can tend to cause us to hold on to weight.  So that’s sort of the program I’ll be putting together – hopefully, it will be coming out this year, which will help a lot of women, both postpartum and everyone, I think.

Kristin:  Yeah, everyone can benefit.  And as you mentioned, the hormone changes, and even women entering perimenopause or in menopause are struggling with some of the weight gain issues there.

Emma:  Absolutely, yes.  I’m actually in that phase myself, and certainly feeling and noticing the changes.  The energy levels change, as well.  So you really have to adapt to what your body is asking for.  I believe in that.  I teach that a lot to my clients, to really listen to their body, not to force things.  Obviously, you need to know the difference between when you’re just being – thinking you can’t be bothered to do anything, and yet you could find the energy for it, or whether you really are exhausted and you don’t have the energy and you’re pushing yourself if you do do it.  So I think it’s important that we learn the difference and start to really listen to our body and what it needs.

Kristin:  Beautiful, yes.  So what tips do you have for women who are going through so many transitions, whether it’s baby number one or baby number four?  You had talked earlier about that mental preparation.  What mindset tips do you have for our listeners?

Emma:  I love to help my clients to visualize the birth that they want to have, which you probably teach a lot of, I’m sure, to your clients.

Kristin:  Yes.

Emma:  Yeah, I thought so.  So we’re coming from definitely the same page there.  You know, I teach yoga and Pilates, and you know I like to have the ladies focus a lot on their breathing, which obviously would come into the doula focus, as well, I’m sure, and to really visualize and stay focused on the birth they want, but obviously, at the same time, things don’t always go to plan but to really embrace and be kind to themselves no matter what happens, you know, during the birthing process.  So for me, that’s a really big one.  And I try to support my clients in probably a fairly gentle approach.  I still give them some good workouts, but I also make sure that they get the relaxation part, as well.  I find that’s really important.  I think many women these days tend to probably do a lot, and they don’t realize they’re doing a lot, so to give them a few moments in class, even if it’s at the end of class, five, ten minutes of focusing on relaxation, breathing, mindset.  It’s sometimes the only moment they get during the day, so I like to always incorporate that.

Kristin:  Yeah, that’s wonderful.  And we focus so much during pregnancy on connecting with baby and taking that time.  I feel like self-care can be an overused term, but it’s also so important, and after having baby, for women to feel like themselves again, like a whole person, versus being in this new role as a parent or being a parent all over again, to take that intentional time for themselves is key.  So the fact that your program offers this break, it’s not just the fitness aspect of it.

Emma:  Yeah, it incorporates all of that.  And I do a lot of work with the women on the fit ball, as well, so I find – I teach them how to use the fit ball during labor, also, which I’m not sure if you go into that, as well, but I’m sure you probably would touch on that.  So that’s a focus I also bring into class, teaching them how to use it during the session so it becomes second nature so they know what to do and it doesn’t feel foreign to them during labor if they do decide to use the fit ball.  They know all the moves and have been practicing it weekly.  So we incorporate it for core strength when they’re in the prenatal phase but also some of the moves for labor.

Kristin:  Love it.  Any final tips for our listeners on any of the subjects that we covered?

Emma:  I think one thing that I do really try and emphasize, I guess, is – a lot of women don’t sort of think about it when they first get pregnant, but I like to teach the women in their first trimester about the postpartum recovery because in the first trimester, you’re still feeling the connection of the abdominals.  You still have your body, technically, prior to it changing, if you like.  Your current connections of abdominal muscles, and that starts to change as you get further along in the pregnancy.  So I love to teach the women what to look out for and what to feel in the postpartum recovery in the first trimester.  So it’s really quite an easy or easier, I should say, transition into postpartum recovery.  You already know the feelings so that you know what you’re looking for because it can be different to find that once you’ve given birth to find that connection back to the abdominal area.  So having that reference before in the prenatal time, especially if it’s new; if Pilates is new to you, or this style that I teach is new, I find that’s a really beneficial way to go through stuff and it can make it an easier transition.

Kristin:  There are so many things.  I love that you’re doing that education for postnatal recovery during pregnancy.  Like you said, there can be surprises, and you don’t really feel like friends or even providers are talking about some of the things to look out for.  A lot of our clients talk about that cramping after delivery and the difference between baby one and baby three and how you might feel in recovery.

Emma:  So true.  And a lot of women also have Cesareans, so that can take a little bit longer to recover, also.  Knowing what you have felt at the beginning, it’s good to have that reference point.  The training that I teach, as well, is really great for Cesarean because it’s not a normal Pilates.  It’s a deeper connection, and it’s interesting because a lot of my clients who come from my Pilates membership, the online membership – I call it the Core Fit Club – they’re doing sort of more of a fitness style of Pilates, but some of them have tried my Core Restore program, which is the postpartum program, and they find a whole new connection.  So even women who haven’t had children or had children many years ago, they come back to this program even though they’re fit and strong, and they still find new connections and new awareness.  So it’s quite powerful and quite an interesting technique that I teach in that respect.

Kristin:  Love it.  So how can our listeners connect with you?  I know you’re on social.  You’ve got a website.  So if you’d share the best ways to connect with your program or you directly?

Emma:  Thank you, yeah.  So if any of your listeners are interested in the postpartum program, that’s the Core Restore Program.  My normal website keeps all of the information, as well.  I’m also on Instagram and Facebook at epilatesonline.  All the information can be found there.  I do have a free five-day kind of like an intro to the course or program there, which is my five day core awareness challenge for new moms or anyone wanting to strengthen their pelvic floor.  That’s available free, and I do have a Pilates pack for free, also, that can be found on my website.  And I do offer the prenatal Pilates, so that option is there, as well.

Kristin:  And then you mentioned you have a Facebook group?

Emma:  Yeah, that is – it’s a different section, but it can be found on my website, as well.  Usually, people join that when they’ve joined some of the programs or at least the free program.

Kristin:  Love it.  Well, thank you so much for your time and sharing your wisdom, Emma.  It was a pleasure.

Emma:  Thank you, I really appreciate it, Kristin.

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

Sasha Morozov of Sasha x Home shares top tips for transitioning back to work after having a baby.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Welcome to Ask the Doulas with Gold Coast Doulas.  I’m Kristin, and I’m joined today by Sasha Morozov.  Sasha is a former executive who holds a masters in social work and is the founder of Sasha x Home.  And when Sasha isn’t chasing after her two sons, she now utilizes her clinical skills to coach women who are killing it at work but feel like they’re failing at home to have more time, less clutter, and systems for a peaceful life.  Sasha believes that working moms are exceptional humans who are skilled, devoted, and unstoppable.  She’s spent almost 15 years working in the nonprofit field to help individuals and families create better futures.  Sasha is an avid minimalist, so we’ll get into that in this episode.  She’s also a productivity master and obsessed with organizing and designing people’s lives.  Welcome, Sasha!

Sasha:  Thanks so much for having me!  I’m so excited for us to connect and talk about going back to work!

Kristin:  Yes, such an important topic for our doula clients, our students in our Becoming course, and women everywhere.  I would love to hear your top tips on how women can prepare to excel at their careers after just going through the major life change of having a baby or adding another baby to their family.

Sasha:  Absolutely.  Let me tell you, one of the biggest things I want us all to really take in is the fact of going back to work as a mother is a new identity.  I think what happens a lot of times is that we’re so wrapped up in being a new mom or adding another child to our family, it becomes an afterthought almost of going back, and I’m here to say wait a minute.  This is huge.  Because think about it, the day you left for maternity leave, you probably had some ideas what it would look like, but now that you’re here, you may be feeling a lot of separation anxiety.  You may be just completely overwhelmed.  There’s so much going on.  So my top tips is really to be proactive versus reactive because, again, when we’re thinking ahead of time, it becomes so much easier.  In being proactive, one thing, one easy thing you can do is to make sure that if you’re going back, that the childcare transition and going back is not at the same time.  I think that’s a common mistake people make, which is that people say, okay, going back to work, you know, June 1st.  That means then baby is going to start daycare or have a nanny or whatever it looks like June 1st because they want that time.  And I’m here to say wait a minute.  That’s a lot of transitions all at once, ladies.  Come on!  It’s a lot.

Kristin:  For you and baby.  It’s a big deal, yes.

Sasha:  Yes, absolutely.  So when you have so much to think about for yourself – you’re nervous; you’re running around; you’re not in the right head space.  Your baby is going to sense that as well.  Versus if you’re starting childcare ahead of time, then you’re able to ease into that transition.  Maybe they go to daycare for half a day versus the full day.  Maybe you start to check in on them if it’s daycare or have the nanny there for a few hours.  You’re able to give yourself the breathing space.  Again, it’s all about the proactiveness.  So that’s a really big tip I try to always encourage people.

Kristin:  Super helpful.  Even the route to the daycare during your work hours, if you do a trial run with baby to see how long that’s going to take so you don’t show up late when you return to work.

Sasha:  Absolutely.  A test run is a must.  Those clothes on, that makeup on.  See how long all of that takes.  And again, we think about it in the context of how we were before.  So maybe we think, oh, it took me ten minutes to brush my hair and get my makeup done before.  And what I say now is that’s great.  It may still take you ten minutes.  However, who’s watching the baby during this time?  If you have somebody crawling next to you while you’re trying to get things done, it’s going to take more time.  So proactively thinking, what does it look like?  How can I be best prepared?  It’s really what I try to encourage everyone who’s thinking about going back to do.

Kristin:  Love it!  What’s your next tip, Sasha?

Sasha:  My next tip is what I call my secret formula, which is my 90-day rule.  My 90-day rule is that we give you the opportunity to transition for 90 days versus the belief that you’re just going to go in, day one, catch up on every single email, and be a super star at home and at the job.  That’s not realistic, and I don’t want that to be realistic, either, for people.  My 90-day rule is give yourself 90 days to transition.  The first 30 days is going to take time to catch up on everything at work and get in the groove of things.  The next 30 days is really going to be the time where you’re in it.  You’re really in it, and then you’re seeing how it’s going.  And the last 30 days is when you’re taking the time to make the adjustments that are needed.  So when you’re looking at it as a much longer process, then you’re able to give yourself a break, as well, that you don’t think, okay, I’m going to go back, and in a week, it’s going to be totally fine.  Give yourself 90 days because I want you to be successful.  Because guess what?  On day one, you might be thinking, why am I going back?  Oh, my gosh, I miss baby.  It’s awful.  But when you give yourself 90 days, you kind of give yourself that space and say, okay, let me see how I’m feeling by 90 days.  Let me see if this sadness is still a level ten as it is on day one, versus just thinking that we’re supposed to just, like, click and just be able to go back to work like nothing has changed, when everything has changed.

Kristin:  Absolutely.  Love your tips, and yeah, that mom guilt will eventually fade for most people.  Great advice.  What else do you have as far as that balance and really being able to achieve at a high level?

Sasha:  Yes.  Just thinking about the mom guilt: I mean, look, we all have it.  My boys are not even babies anymore, and sometimes I still feel guilty about having them still be in, like, afterschool versus just picking them up after school.  So again, that guilt, that’s going to be there.  However, I want you to think about, as well, when you’re preparing to go back, that this is the decision right now.  I think we get so caught up in the, well, I’ve worked hard for this position, or I got my master’s, so I need to work, and this is all it’s ever going to be.  And I say, look, this is the best decision for you and your family right now.  You don’t know what it’s going to look like in a year or two years.  So that way, you don’t have to feel as guilty because guess what?  Then you can set yourself up if there needs to be a career transition or a stay at home transition, whatever it is.  And the exact same thing on the other side.  For the women that are choosing to stay home, that is a huge job in itself.  We know that.  And I also have women that come to me and say, I’ve been a stay at home mom.  Now my kids are going to school.  I think I want to do something, and that’s where I come in and say, great.  You’ve had your chapter, and this is what you wanted at that time, and now you’re ready for a different chapter.  And all of that is beautiful.  That’s what life is supposed to be, that we go through ebbs and flows and things change.  Maybe you thought you’d be at your career for 30 years your whole professional life, and that has been the way it was, you know, years ago.  But that’s not the current climate.  We hear people all the time switching jobs.  It’s not about climbing the one ladder.  It’s like a jungle gym.  Sometimes you go a little bit here.  Sometimes you climb a little bit to the left, to the right.  It’s not just the straight arrow.  So I want us to really start thinking about all the different options and know that just because we’re making a decision today does not mean that that is the final decision ever for ever, ever, ever, and that’s it.

Kristin:  Right.  And so Sasha, this is a unique time with a pandemic and a lot of employees are still working either hybrid or remote.  So to handle that transition, do you have any tips, and what are you seeing right now with your coaching?

Sasha:  Absolutely.  So I can say that, you know, in the beginning when everything just shut down, we had no choices.  Right?  Our kids were at home.  If you were pregnant, you gave birth, you came home, and you were by yourself.  And at that time, everyone just had to figure it out, and that’s fine.  What I want to encourage people is that now that we’re at a little bit of a different time, even if you’re working from home, I highly encourage that you still have childcare while you’re working.  Because what I’ve seen a lot of times is women saying, oh, well, I was able to kind of just do it before, so I’m just going to kind of just do it now.  And that’s where I come in and say, guys, it’s not worth your mental strain.  It’s not.  It’s not worth your mental health.  Maybe you have a super flexible job; however, you still have a responsibility as an employee to complete the work.  So what I say is, you can do it without childcare at home, and at some point, we needed to.  We really just – we had no options, right?  Everything was closed unless you were in a privileged position where you still could have, like, a live-in or something like that.  However, most people were just like, okay, well, this is it.  But now we do have those options, and because we have those options, I think it’s amazing that so many women are thinking about jobs from home or remote work or part-time work because they want to be a little bit more involved.  I mean, how many of us want to sit in a car anymore and drive an hour in traffic when we’ve seen we can do the same job on a computer?

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  Right.  It’s not as productive, but at the same time, if you’re working from home, there’s always dishes to be done, or you might grab an extra snack, so there are distractions.  So again, you know, getting even working remotely, like you said, having childcare, having some systems in place, some support, whatever it might be, because otherwise, there are distractions.

Sasha:  Absolutely.  And there are just different distractions at the office, too.  Maybe you’re just chatting with your colleague, instead.  So I think it’s really about the routine, the schedule, and also the space.  I mean, think about it.  If you’re working from home, you’re in the same space.  Again, everybody’s different.  Some people are able to just close the door, and let’s say they have their child at home and somebody is watching them, a family member, a partner, a nanny, whoever.  And that child is screaming, and somebody could just be like, okay.  Just getting my work done.  And somebody has to be, like, losing their mind, right?  And the pull of that.  So what I try to say is, well, with that, a tip, is time block.  Okay?  So the idea of doing time blocks is that if you know – like, for me, if I’m writing, I need it to be quiet.  That’s it.  Like, I need a peaceful place, and guess what?  If I had younger children that were at home or too many distractions, then I would go somewhere else.  So I would know that, you know what?  Every Tuesday and Thursday, 8:00 to 10:00, I’m going to be at this coffee shop or be wherever, at the park even, depending on the weather, and just write.  Because I know if I’m home, I’m not going to be as productive, and I don’t want that, because I want to be able to sign off at the end of the day and not have to come back because I didn’t get things done.  So time blocking, understanding where your energy is during the day.  Some people are morning people, so they’re ready to go, and that’s the time that’s best for them to be most productive and get things done.  Other people are not.  Either way is fine.  Understanding how you work, when the best time is for you, when you’re working and energy level is there, and making sure to set up your environment for success.

Kristin:  Exactly, and like you said, when you have defined work times, then you’re not getting into an overlap with your personal time when you should be spending time with your family.  And so you’re not trying to meet a deadline at 7:00 at night when you could be putting your kids to bed.

Sasha:  Absolutely.  But then again, we live in reality, and what happens in reality is that things come up that we didn’t expect, or our supervisors need extra stuff last minute on a weekend or needs something, and that’s okay, too.  I think that’s where a lot of people come in and say, no, but you need to make sure you have these boundaries.  Of course you do.  However, if your job needs you, it needs you.  And I’m here to tell all those women, that’s going to happen, and it’s okay, because there are going to be times where your family needs you, and they need you, and that’s it, as well.  So give yourself a break because it’s not going to be a perfect science.  It’s not ever going to work to have a rigid schedule.  But what is going to work is knowing that where you’re focusing your energy is where it needs to be.  So if you’re just on Facebook all day, then that’s not where your energy needs to be.  If you’re truly working during the day and getting work done, but you have an extra hour that you need to devote more to work because there’s a deadline or whatever it may be, that’s okay.  Why is it not okay?  You know, our society is making us feel like it’s not okay because they want us to have this perfect, like, balance of one juggle ball is up, then the next ball, and it’s all just equal.  I’m saying that’s not how it works.  It’s never going to be equal.  It’s just not.

Kristin:  Right.  So I have a question for you, Sasha.  With your focus on minimalism, how can moms, especially a first time, when she has all these baby showers and she has all of the things, like strollers and high chairs and some things she won’t even use until a baby is one, maybe two – how can you minimize all of the clutter and distractions and have that space to breathe?  Because I know for me, if I have too much stuff and clutter around, it causes anxiety.

Sasha:  Absolutely.  Clutter is absolutely shown to cause stress, anxiety, and just an overall sense of heaviness.  That’s just how I feel when I see clutter.  It’s just a lot visually, as well as the actual stuff.  I always say less is more.  When you have less toys, it’s less things to clean up.  Absolutely, as a first-time mom, you don’t know, and even as a second-time mom, there were things that I was like, oh, I’m totally going to use this, or I know my lesson from last time, and then I didn’t, okay?

Kristin:  That’s why we always tell our clients to register for services like a housekeeper or a postpartum doula.  Anything that can actually make a difference in your life versus clothes they’ll outgrow or plastic, you know, things that sit around and you trip over.

Sasha:  Yes, absolutely.  Anything you can register for that will help your mental health and ease some of the outside things that are going on are beyond their worth.  And I know it’s cute to dress up a baby.  I love babies; they’re so cute.  And again, no matter how many times I can tell somebody you don’t need that much stuff, they’re going to have that much stuff, and that’s okay, too, because that’s where they’re at.  They’re excited.  Maybe somebody has been trying for a long time to conceive, and they’ve just been thinking about this and seeing those clothes in the stores and all of that.  And what I say, that’s fine if that’s where you’re at.  That’s why I do one on one coaching, to make sure that it’s really customizable to the person.  If that’s the type of person you are, what I would say is that’s amazing you have these beautiful clothes.  I want you to think about, who are you going to either gift this to, not as, like, pretend here’s a new gift, but like who else in your circle may be having the child next, so that way you’re prepared to do something about it versus letting those clothes just sit around, oh, they’ve outgrown it; here’s a pile of stuff.  Thinking ahead of time, and maybe there’s a charity that you want to look up.  There’s beautiful things you can do in order to donate or to give, whatever.  And that way even if it’s your first and you’re thinking, well, what about if I have a second?  You have a circle of, like, three other moms, and you all agree that, hey, next time one of us gets pregnant, we’re going to save this and give it back.  You already kind of have this theme so that way you can let go.  Somebody else is using it in the meantime, and it’s not just sitting in the attic, and you know that it’s going to come back around to you, as well.

Kristin:  Absolutely, I love that.  So yeah, blessing other friends with your clothing or items that won’t get used.  So lovely.  And then you can make room for more as you’re getting more clothes and have birthdays coming up.  I always have my kids give away toys and things before Christmas or their birthday to minimize the amount of things that we have.

Sasha:  Yes, especially when children are older, we do in our house one for one.  So if my child gets a toy, then what’s the one toy that they’re willing to give up or donate, whatever condition that is in.  So that’s kind of like a rule in our house, one for one.  And at the same time, what do you want your life to look like?  Do you want your life to look like that it’s filled with toys and stuff, or do you want your life to look like that it’s filled with experiences and memories?  So that again – for everybody, it’s different.  That’s fine.  Maybe somebody grew up not being able to afford – like, my husband and I were both first generation immigrants, right?  So we both came as we were kids, and we both came – you know, our families started from scratch; put it that way.  So we didn’t have the cool stuff.  We didn’t have – and I remember, when our child turned – our oldest turned, like, three or something.  My husband saw this, like, yellow Hummer, like one of those kid Hummers that they, like, sit in and drive around.  He was, like, we’re buying it.  I was like, what are you talking about?  This makes no sense.  He’s like, I remember – he was like, even though he came when he was older, he’s like, I remember seeing those and thinking like, oh, my God, like, that is so cool.  There’s no way my family could ever have that.  It was a big deal for him, okay?  I was like, all right, whatever, fine, you know?  So I get it that there’s different situations.  And even with those situations, you need to figure out when you’re comfortable to let go.  When you’re comfortable with, okay, this is taking over our own space and our own health and our own sanity.  More than anything, you’ve got enough going on as a new mom or being pregnant.  Now you have a room full of stuff for the baby?  That’s a lot to take in as it is.  So take a look at it, and maybe even just think about it.  Okay, this is for sure something that’s going to stay, and then make even just a maybe pile.  So go through that yes pile first.  Maybe you never get to the maybe pile.  But that way it’s just at least more clear for you as well, because you don’t need to keep every single pair of, like, the cute little baby shoes that you get because they’re not even walking.  So by the time they are walking, they’re going to be grown out of those shoes, but you’re going to get, like, five or ten pairs because everyone thinks that’s, like, the cutest thing.  And it is, but still.

Kristin:  So Sasha, in your four-step method, you focus on self.  So we’ve talked about some of that.  Home, relationships, and systems to help moms get started on a life they want to put on pause.  So you have talked about, again, a lot of the things, but I would really love to have some tips for the change in relationships and what you help your clients navigate after having a baby and how their relationship, whether it’s with a friend who’s child-free, their partner, colleagues, how things change after baby.

Sasha:  Yes, absolutely.  Relationships are so important.  You know, there was a recent study found that out of, like, 2,000 parents, 68% of parents felt that they really had lost their social ties or didn’t feel connected to their social relationships.  So I want us to be aware of that because I don’t want us to isolate.  I feel like today, the motto is, you have your nuclear family.  You have your, like, little family, whether it’s you and your partner and a child or just you and a child or whatever it looks like, and that’s it.  Where to me – I mean, I love the saying it takes a village.  It takes a village to raise a child.  And I feel like we have this notion of, like, we have to do it ourselves.  Like, no, no, no, I’m going to be the one that – and I’m saying, take a breath, okay?  Take a breath.  Let people in.  That doesn’t mean you take their advice, but just let people in.  Let go of things because no one is going to do it your way, and no one’s going to be you.  No one’s trying to replace you, either.  So when we’re thinking about relationships, how can we create more space for people to come in so we’re not as alone so we’re able to build a community, even building a community of other new moms who are going through the same thing?  I always encourage people to join, like, the mommy and me groups.  There’s mom meetups.  There’s so many ways to create that community.  But if we’re talking about relationships at home, one of the things I want us to keep in mind, when you are thinking or transitioning to going back to work, it’s the fact that, look, what happens is – what I see happening is that the woman is on maternity leave.  The partner is back at work before the woman, usually, before the mom.  And what happens is the mom ends up actually taking on more stuff at home.  She’s the one that’s like, oh, well, I’ll run this errand.  I’ll do this thing because I’m at home more.  I’ll just need to get out with the baby and all that.  And that’s all great.  Guess what?  Now your partner is used to you actually doing all of these things, right?  So unless you’re proactive in having that conversation about, hey, when I transition back to work, in that 90-day transition that you’re talking about, I know that it’s something that you’re probably used to me doing.  However, we need to talk about a better balance, a better way for us to get everything done because I’m no longer able to complete all of that.  Because what happens is then we’re reactive, and our partner says something and it triggers us.  We’re like, why can’t you do it?  And they’re like, okay, it’s not that they don’t want to, it’s just we’ve been the one that just naturally has ended up taking it on.  We haven’t had a conversation about letting go of it or changing the way something is done, so their expectation of us hasn’t changed.  It’s just that we’re still going to do it.  But ours has because in our mind, well, like, now I have so much to think about more because I’m going to be at work.

Kristin:  Right.  And our partners – I mean, they want to fix things, but if they – you know, given the opportunity to get a new plan in place, they think everything’s great.  So they have no idea that it’s causing extra stress to continue the different errands and tasks that you had on your plate prior to going back to work.  So it’s a great tip.

Sasha:  Yes, absolutely.  And the same thing using the 90-day rule: ask for help.  Let your community in.  Maybe you don’t have the best relationship with your sister or mother or in-law or cousin or whoever.  Is there any way you can let them in during that 90-day transition period, so that way it’s a little bit easier for you as all of this is changing?  Maybe they come over once a week and you’re able to get, whether it’s chores done or a massage or whatever it is, but just having that extra support for that 90 days.

Kristin:  Love it.  So any final tips for our listeners, Sasha?

Sasha:  I would just say think about life not as black and white but really living in the gray and that the pendulum is going to swing one way into having you be all thinking about work and then another way, which is thinking all about the home.  And I truly believe we are amazing humans who do so much, so we should not be putting more on ourselves or feeling guilty about the things when we are doing the best we can with the choices and decisions we have in front of us.

Kristin:  Beautiful.  So how can our listeners connect with you?  I know you’re on social media.  You’ve got a Facebook group, as well as your coaching program?

Sasha:  Absolutely.  So if you are a mom getting ready to go back to work or are thinking about going back to work, I actually have a course called Going Back To Work where we dive into what we talked about today but a deeper level.  And you can get that on my website.  You can also schedule a one on one with me.  Join the Facebook community for more lives and tips.  I would love for you to be in touch.

Kristin:  And what is the name of the Facebook group?

Sasha:  Yes, Moms Taking Their Lives To The Next Level At Home, because I know that we’ve done so much at the office, and when we come home, I want us to still be living our best lives instead of feeling like a second shift of work.

Kristin:  Yes.  Beautiful, Sasha!  Well, thank you so much for your time and wisdom.  It has been a pleasure to get to know you, Sasha.

Sasha:  Absolutely.  Thank you!  Thank you so much.  I love what you’re doing with this podcast, as well.

Kristin:  Thank you!  Take care.

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

 

Karin Freeland chats about her book, “The Ins and Outs of My Vagina: A Penetrating Memoir” with Kristin.  They discuss everything from body image to postpartum depression.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Welcome to Ask the Doulas!  I’m Kristin, and I’m joined today by Karin Freeland.  Now, Karin is a recovered corporate workaholic.  After years in high pressure leadership roles at Fortune 500 companies, she’s traded the boardroom for the bedroom in a hilarious tell-all book, The Ins and Outs of My Vagina: A Penetrating Memoir.  Karin recounts the mishaps and misadventures she’s had over the past 40 years with a special partner in crime, her vagina named V.   Women of all ages can relate to the raw and honest journey of first long-term relationships and finding pleasure.  Karin is also a speaker and certified life and reinvention coach focused on helping women transform their lives and achieve their dreams.  Through her signature Edit Your Life program, Karin offers one-on-one coaching, giving women all the tools and techniques needed to conquer fears and find their purpose.  Welcome, Karin!  So happy to have you here!

Karin:  Hi, Kristin!  Thank you so much for having me!

Kristin:  So let’s get into some of the topics that you cover in your book related to pregnancy, the postnatal phase, and anything else you’d like to share with our listeners and our Gold Coast Doula clients.

Karin:  Yeah, absolutely.  I mean, there is so much, and I guess I’ll just kind of back up for a second because a lot of women may be wondering, like, why would someone write a book called The Ins and Outs of My Vagina: A Penetrating Memoir?  And it might sound crazy, but it actually has everything to do with me getting pregnant because this is how the book was actually born.  So back when I was seven months pregnant with my first son who was born, I went to the OB, and she told me I needed to start preparing my body for birth.  And I was like, yeah, cool, I’m in a Lamaze class.  I’m good.  And she was like, no, no.  I need you to start doing – I think the proper term is perineal massage.  I’m not sure how you pronounce it.  But basically, that entails, if anyone hasn’t heard of this before, putting some olive oil on your fingers and stretching out the vulva to make way for the baby so you don’t tear.  I had never heard of this before, and I thought it was cray cray, so I was like, I’m not doing that.  But of course, I got bored on a Friday night, and my lovely vagina who is a character in the book named V sort of talked me into trying this.  So it was a disaster.  I mean, long story short, you can read all about it in Chapter 30, All Lubed Up With Nowhere To Go, but I just – I had no idea what I was doing.  I couldn’t get my fingers in the right position.  There was more olive oil on the floor than there was actually on me, and I finally called it a day.  And when my husband came home, he was like, what on earth happened in the bathroom?  Why is olive oil everywhere?  I mean, can you imagine this poor guy’s face?  Like, what is happening?  So I tried to explain to him really poorly about what I’m trying to do, and he just looked at me with the most serious look and was like, you know what you should do?  You should write a book, and called it I Don’t Know My Vagina, because it’s clear you don’t know how this thing works.  And, you know, he was right.  I don’t –

Kristin:  Most of us don’t.  It’s so true.

Karin:  Yeah.  And so it was like a seed that was planted, and I started thinking of all the stories and all the things that I could share with other women that I just didn’t know about going into pregnancy, and then what I would find out even more going through birth and after pregnancy.  So I spent a lot of my maternity leave writing this book, and then as you saw from my bio, you know, corporate got in the way.  I worked for another ten or so years.  And then finally in 2019, I picked the book back up and said, no, I have to finish this story.  So that’s kind of how the whole thing was born, and in it, you know, I really give women insight into some of the experiences that they will likely encounter over their life with their vagina.  So things like having pregnancy sex.  Like, who knew what kind of – what to expect with that?  No one talks about sex during pregnancy.  No one talks about ectopic pregnancy.  I’d never even heard that word before until I was sitting in the emergency room of a hospital being told that it was my situation.  You know, no one talks about postpartum other than, hey, there’s this thing, postpartum, and you should check a smiley face or a sad face on your six-week checkup or whatever.  But no one really told me what to look for.  What are the symptoms?  How does this really manifest?  No one told me about episiotomies and torn labia.  I mean, there was just so many things, and I was like, I have to warn other women so that they don’t end up in the same situation I’m in.

Kristin:  It’s the things you wish your friends would share with you, but it’s almost like we’re too embarrassed to discuss.  So as doulas, we talk about a lot of these things with our clients, but it’s not something they’d ever heard before.  So the fact that you were brave enough to talk about your personal experiences and use humor with a lot of really serious topics – it’s huge.

Karin:  Yeah.  Thank you.  And it was hard, especially the chapter where I talk about the miscarriage and having an ectopic pregnancy was hard to write in the sense that I didn’t want it to come off as too humorous or as cavalier.  You know, like, oh, here I am, just talking about losing a baby.  But I did want to keep elements of dark humor because that is my authentic response to a lot of trauma and tragedy is to find a way to just cope, and a lot of times my coping goes to sort of this, like, dark humor.  So I hope – I think from what I’ve heard, you know, that that’s kind of resonated with people, also, and made it sort of an easier read because it’s hard to read these types of experiences that women go through.

Kristin:  Exactly.  Yes.  So your read is light – I mean, it could almost be a beach read compared to most pregnancy and parenting books.  They can take a while to get through, and it can be boring at times.  But you made it really interesting and lighthearted.  I had so many laugh out loud moments.  So thank you for devoting the time it takes.  I’m working on a book project yet to be published, and I know the time that’s involved and balancing that’s required to be a professional and mother and everything.

Karin:  Yeah.  It is a lot for sure.  But when I started really writing it, when I picked it back up in 2019, it was such a fire in my belly.  You know, like, I was so inspired and just felt this draw every day to write and to get it out on paper that it was almost like another force was, like, taking me over and just had to get this story out on paper.  So, you know, I think everybody has kind of that different experience where it’s just like it was so easy to prioritize it because I was so called to it in that moment.

Kristin:  For sure, and I love how you broach everything from wanting your husband to be more of a hand-holder during your labors, and that is so common with clients.  Like, no, I don’t really want you to see baby get born.  Or some women are really wanting their partner to be there engaged in the process and don’t mind if he sees the change in the vagina during that time.  Or even like how you discuss having sex for the first time after giving birth, and even looking at your – you know, just taking a mirror and looking at the changes and the swelling and things, again, our friends don’t talk about with us.

Karin:  Yeah.  I think that was probably one of my favorite chapters to write was Hotdog In A Hallway, and that’s a chapter – the names of the chapters, they’re so fun.  So even if you just go read the chapter headings, you’ll get a laugh.  But yeah, that was such a fun chapter to write because it was such an unexpected experience.  You know, here you are.  You finally got the clearance after your six-week period to have sex, and my poor husband is, like, chomping at the bit.  He’s like a dog salivating at the door.  Can we do this?  And I’m like, okay, we can, but I need you to take it easy, buddy, all right?  Like, we’re not getting in there and, like, jackhammering me to death.  Like, we got to take it slow and, like, let’s just communicate and really kind of be on the same page here the whole time.  So he’s like, okay, no problem, I can’t wait.  The kids are in bed.  This is going to be amazing.  And of course, you know, you’re breastfeeding if you choose that route, and your boobs are leaking everywhere, and you’re trying to look sexy.  There’s this huge wet stain on your teddy, and they go to have sex, and it doesn’t quite meet your expectations.  And all of a sudden, you’re like, is this what it’s going to be like for the rest of my life?  Am I doomed to almost sensationless sex?  Or is this going to bounce back?  And there’s just so many emotions that go through your head in that moment.  Meanwhile, like, in my case, my husband’s, like, laying next to me with his hands behind his head like he’s on cloud nine, and I’m over here going, oh my gosh, my sex life is over.  This is ruined.  Is this – I was so confused by everything that was happening.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  Yes, it is different, and again, it’s not something that’s openly talked about.  So just the preparation, and like you said, I mean, I experienced the same thing with breastfeeding, and it’s like, oh, is the baby going to wake?  We have this small window, and I don’t feel sexy.  My body is still healing.  So there’s all of that.  But yeah, and just – I mean, a lot of women have body image issues, and they don’t even feel attractive, let alone feel like they’re ready for intimacy at that point.

Karin:  Oh, yeah, and I had mastitis twice with my first one, so it was like I had just kind of healed – oh, it was awful.  I mean, I couldn’t even stand up with him.  I was so dizzy, and I was afraid that I was going to drop him, and my husband worked nights.  So I would literally hold the baby in one arm and crawl across the floor from the couch to the diaper changing station and, like, change his diaper and then get back down on the floor and crawl back to the couch because I didn’t want to, like, fall over and pass out or something and drop the baby.  Which now I look back, and I kind of laugh at how ridiculous I must have looked, but, like, I was just so sick, and I had no idea.  I’m like, it’s a breast infection.  Like, I’m going to be on medication.  Like, why isn’t this getting better right away?  But it really took a tool.

Kristin:  It feels like the flu.  It’s very intense, and if you haven’t gone through it, to try to function as a mother, I mean, obviously, you know, in an ideal world, we’d have a postpartum doula or a mother or someone to help you during that time, but most of us just have to make do.  I suffered as well with mastitis.  It’s miserable.

Karin:  Yeah.  It really is.  And so just being able to talk about some of those things, and how I don’t know that I’m providing world class education over here, but just insight.  So if you’ve never gone through these things, you’re going to be so much better prepared for that.  And then if you’re going through it right now, you know, there’s that opportunity also to commiserate, and even if you’ve already experienced it, just looking back and going, oh my gosh, I wasn’t alone.  This was a normal experience.  You know, other people have gone through this, too.  And having that comfort and maybe some additional realizations about the relationship you have with your body, it’s a beautiful thing.  It’s a beautiful thing to be able to have those moments and those epiphanies and that camaraderie, if you will.

Kristin:  Yes.  And with your loss, I really liked how you took some time and advocated for yourself during a potential loss and really talked it over with your husband and got a second opinion.  So I really love when clients of mine feel confident enough to advocate for themselves.  So can you talk a bit about, you know, what really led you to call your provider and really get some time with the news that you received?

Karin:  Yeah, absolutely.  So in the book, I talk about both of my births, so my first son and then two years later, being pregnant again with my second son.  And with my second son, I took a pregnancy test, and I guess it was very early in the process.  So it said yes, you’re pregnant, the stick, but then when I got to the doctor’s office, they were like, eh, it’s not really that strong.  It’s kind of inconclusive.  Like, let’s send you to the hospital because I want to make sure that we don’t have another ectopic situation on our hands.  And so of course I was feeling really deflated, like oh no, not again.  I don’t know if I can handle going through this again.  Why is this happening?  What is wrong with my vagina?  Why can’t it get its act together?  I mean, there’s all the feels.  But I also didn’t want to freak out and get overly emotional because I’m – for all I knew, I was going to go there, and they were going to be like, everything is fine, and it was just a precaution.  And while I was sitting there and they’re doing the test, you know, which took longer than I thought that they should take, so I was definitely starting to get concerned, they came in and said, yes, we indeed believe that you do have another ectopic situation on our hands.  And I instantly was just crushed.  I mean, it’s amazing how our vaginas are the source of sometimes great pleasure, great –you know, the sexiness, and sometimes frustration or sometimes they gross us out, and also this great source of pain sometimes and trauma and devastation.  And I just was really feeling that devastated moment, but I don’t know if it was an inner voice, because really, the next step was to terminate the pregnancy right then and there.  You know, that’s what they wanted to do, and maybe it’s from some of my religious background; I don’t know.  I just had this gut feeling that I can’t go through with this right now.  If this ultimately is what we need to do, it just feels too inconclusive.  You know, the tech, who I think isn’t really supposed to talk to you when she’s doing things, but she’s like, it could be a burst cyst.  It just didn’t feel like there was enough conviction from the people around me saying, yes, this is 1000% ectopic, and this is what we need to do.

Kristin:  Right, to save your life, so sure.

Karin:  Yes.  I just felt like I need to reach out at least to my husband to start, and he was very much like, no, like, don’t do anything.  He really backed me up and was like, let’s talk to the doctor.  Like, just wait and see.  Don’t do something right now.  So I called my doctor, and of course, she was gracious enough to say, I believe you.  If you don’t feel confident in this, let’s hold it out, but just know we’re dealing with a potentially very serious issue.  If you really are ectopic, we’ve got to do something before this becomes life threatening to you.  I was like, that’s fine, but I don’t think we’re at that stage yet.  It’s that early in the pregnancy.  You know, the fetus is still very small.  Just wait even 24 hours.  I just need to sleep on this.  And fortunately, we ended up waiting, and it was not ectopic.  And that for me is, like, just – it blows my mind that Ryan might not be here if I had followed that guidance on that day.

Kristin:  Yeah.  I mean, you know your body better than anyone else, and you got a second opinion.  So you gave yourself a little bit of time, and yes, it was risky, but what an amazing story.

Karin:  Yeah, thank you.  And sometimes I forget, like, that that even happened, and so writing that story was like, oh my gosh, yes, what if other women are in similar situations, and they read the book?  They decide to advocate for themselves and save their baby’s life or something.  The ripple effect that this one story could have is just amazing to think about.

Kristin:  Exactly.  So getting into the postnatal phase, Karin, what did you do – I know you talk about intimacy and so on, but really, getting into body image, how did you in small ways start to encourage yourself and help yourself to feel beautiful other than trying on some clothes that fit pre-pregnancy and trying to take a few minutes to do your hair and makeup and whatever with a new baby?  But I would love to give our listeners some tips on feeling good about yourself after baby.

Karin:  Yeah, absolutely.  Some of that was a lot of self-care.  You know, I took the time to go get my hair done and get my hair cut and colored, and some of those external things that do seem so superficial, but it is what made me feel closer to my old self, you know, and that person that I used to be.  And I remember being in the hair salon, and my breasts were so engorged, I literally had to go stand in the sink of the bathroom and squeeze my breasts out and just, like, dump the milk because I was like, I can’t sit here for another hour with this hair color on my hair.  It hurt so bad.

Kristin:  Yes, it’s painful!

Karin:  Yes, again, something no one told me to expect.  But so much of it came down to just reminding myself that it’s okay that I don’t look the way I used to look.  I gave birth.  I brought a life into this world.  And that little life does not care if I have 15, 20 extra pounds on me, right?  All that little life wants is love and affection, and I can do that regardless of my size and my appearance.  And it’s sounds so cliché, right, and it’s such an easy thing to say, but sometimes it’s very hard to put that into perspective.  And so little things like just looking in the mirror and saying, like, you’re a great mom.  Keep going.  You’re going to get back in shape.  Finding ways to, like, work out, and it didn’t have to be, like, going to the gym for an hour because as a new mom, the chances of that happening are probably really low.  It’s like, hey, I’m just going to grab my hand weights and I’m going to put my hand weights in the TV room, the den where we hang out most of the time, and when he’s sleeping, I’m just going to do, like, a couple reps.  I’m just going to tone up my muscle again.  Didn’t have to be crazy, but those little things, and just showing myself love was so helpful.  And I was very fortunate to have a husband who was also very supportive, and so, you know, he would kind of say things like, I think you’re beautiful.  Don’t worry about it.  You’re always in shape.  You’re going to lose the weight.  He was just very supportive, and if I was like, hey, I don’t want – don’t buy any chips this week at the grocery store, or don’t bring ice cream in the house, and he’d be like, okay, no problem.  You know, he would kind of support me in that, as well, which was really great.

Kristin:  Nice!  So any tips how to, with the change in the relationship, whether it’s baby one or baby four, how to keep the romance and the relationship a priority?  With the new role of parents or adding yet another child to the family.

Karin:  Oh, yeah.  There is something so important about that communication and keeping the intimacy alive.  Remembering why this baby is here in the first place: because of your love for each other.  And I think it’s so tempting for us as new parents to just prioritize the baby and forget about our spouse.  And so I would have to – I tried to be cognizant of that and ask him, like, am I paying you enough attention?  Do you feel like I’m prioritizing you?  And if he would say, no, like, we haven’t spent enough time together this week, or we haven’t been intimate enough – okay, great.  Here’s what I need you to do.  Could you help me with the dishes, and I’ll get the baby into bed?  That way, we can go upstairs and have more time for each other.  It’s a great way to also rope them into helping you and doing stuff if they’re not – if you don’t feel that they’re pulling their weight.

Kristin:  That’s perfect.  I love it.

Karin:  Yeah.  Keep that communication open, and really just remember why you’re together in the first place.  It’s totally normal for women not to feel super sexy right after they’ve had a baby.  Like, that is also part of evolution.  We don’t feel sexy because back in the day, like in the caveman days and stuff, we were breastfeeding and we were doing other things and we didn’t want to have another baby right away back to back, so it’s kind of like nature’s way of preventing that from happening right away again.  Maybe for you it’s also like turning off the lights.  Or I wore a shirt for a while after I first had the baby because it just made me feel more comfortable, especially because I had a diastasis recti and hernia and so was just kind of like – my stomach was just sort of hanging there, and it didn’t matter how much weight I lost, it wasn’t going to go back to the way it used to be until it was fixed.  So, you know, you can do the little things that allow you to keep the intimacy but also make you feel comfortable.

Kristin:  Exactly.  Love it.  So any final tips for our listeners, Karin?

Karin:  I am just so appreciative of the opportunity to share this story today because I think a lot of people still look at the title, The Ins And Outs Of My Vagina, and they assume it’s just going to be a collection of conquests.  You know, people that I’ve been intimate with.  And really, it’s not.  It’s just sort of a beautiful story about our relationships with our vaginas and all the different things we go through on our journey to womanhood.  And I would just tell women out there, like, if you’re going through something, chances are you’re not alone.  You know, there’s really very few unicorns out there.  We’re not that special in that way.  We’re all going through something similar, and it’s just a matter of finding that trusted resource and people that you can speak with, whether it’s your doula, whether it’s your doctor, whether it’s a girlfriend, someone at your work even or in HR.  Wherever you are, there’s someone else who’s probably gone through something very similar and can support you in that moment.  But we have to be brave enough to speak up in the first place to find that connection and that person who can support us.

Kristin:  So true.  I love it.  You might have to do a second book later in your life on menopause and entering that stage.  That would be really fun.

Karin:  Oh, my gosh, yes.  I’ve already got the title.  The Ins And Outs Of My Vagina: The Second Coming.  That’s what I’m thinking of.  Yes, because I am starting to go through perimenopause.

Kristin:  So am I.  It’s such a whirlwind.

Karin:  It is.  Make it stop.  How do we make it stop?

Kristin:  Exactly.  Yes, I need a book.  So get it out there!  So how do our listeners find you?  How can they buy The Ins And Outs Of My Vagina?  I know you’re on a lot of different social media sites, so feel free to share.

Karin:  Yeah, absolutely.  So the book is available on Amazon and Barnes & Noble.  Pretty much anywhere books are sold digitally, you can grab it.  There’s an ebook or paperback depending on what your preference is.  I am on social media as Karin Freeland, on Twitter and Instagram.  I have a Facebook page for my business, Karin Freeland Life Coaching.  And of course, you can always go to my website for all things life coaching and book related.

Kristin:  And before we go, fill us in a bit about how you work with women as a life coach and who your ideal client is.

Karin:  Yeah, absolutely.  So I spent many years in corporate, and towards the end, I just felt like, what is my purpose?  Why am I here?  Is it just to make PowerPoints all day?  There has to be something more.  But I felt very stuck.  I didn’t know what that was.  And as I started writing the book and totally revamping my life, I realized that I could actually help other women who felt stuck and frustrated and knew that there was more to life but didn’t know how to go after it.  So I developed a program called Edit Your Life, and Edit is an acronym for envision the goal, document, invest in the goal, and take action.  And I really walk my clients through a six-month program to help them get clear on what it is that they want out of life, map a plan to achieve it, help them own their power, overcome any of those limiting beliefs or things that are really holding them back, and hold them accountable for actually taking the action that they commit to so that they can bring those goals to fruition, whatever that is.  Whether it’s getting promoted in corporate, leaving and starting their own business, being a better mom, dating.  I’m helping one client find a date.  So typically, they’re women between 35 and 55 who are just ambitious, hungry go-getters but are just feeling a little lost right now and want a little help getting that direction set.

Kristin:  I love it.  So it covers pretty much everything, like you said, from dating to motherhood to career changes and aspirations.  That is amazing.

Karin:  Health and fitness.  There’s so many aspects of things that need to be good in our life in order for us to have a happy life.

Kristin:  Yes.  So true.  Well, thank you, Karin.  It was lovely to chat with you, and when you get your next book out there in the world, let me know.  I’d love to chat about it.

Karin:  Yes, and thank you so much for reading it, and thanks to everybody for tuning in and learning about it!

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

 

Lisa Sugarman, author of How To Raise Perfectly Imperfect Kids, discusses positive parenting and balance with Kristin.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Welcome to Ask the Doulas!  I’m Kristin, and I’m so excited to chat with Lisa Sugarman today about parenting and the power of positivity.  Lisa is a parenting author, a nationally syndicated humor columnist, and a radio show host.  She writes a syndicated opinion column, It Is What It Is, and is the author of How To Raise Perfectly Imperfect Kids and Be Okay With It: Untying Parent Anxiety and Life.  Welcome, Lisa!

Lisa:  Thank you!  Thanks so much for having me!

Kristin:  Let’s get into it!  I love talking about positive parenting.  What are some of your tips for parenting young children or new parents starting off this big transition?

Lisa:  Yeah, it’s a scary transition.  We’re just as new at all this as our kids are, and that’s the thing that we tend to forget when we have our first children, at least.  We’re so excited on the fact that we’ve got to teach them everything.  We’ve got to empower them in all the ways.  We completely forget about the fact that we’re complete newbies to the whole parenting game ourselves, and it can be really challenging.  It can be really debilitating.  It can be just a really hard road to navigate when we want to set ourselves up for success right alongside our kids, but we’re all kind of learning as we go.  One of the best things that I’ve found as a mom and through all the work that I’ve done with parents over the years: it’s really just a matter of your attitude and just giving yourself permission to be that newbie and to learn and to screw up and to change course and to just try and set yourself up in the best way that you can to be successful as a parent.

Kristin:  What are your tips for starting that relationship strong, especially in the toddler stage when infants are learning so much about boundaries and themselves?  I’d love to hear your thoughts.

Lisa:  I think the idea of cutting everybody some slack just from the very beginning is something that is a really powerful tool.  I think we get so wrapped up inside our own heads about kind of our kids toeing the line and us making all the right decisions and not fumbling the ball, but the fact is, we do it, and they do it.  And I think that if we can encourage our kids to go for it in whatever way they want to go for it, at whatever age they are at the time, whether it’s getting on your little scooter or whether it’s getting behind the wheel of a car, we need to empower them that occasionally it’s not going to go right, but that’s okay.  That’s really okay, and it’s really all about maintaining that positive attitude, that even those screw-ups are so valuable.  I think that’s one of the greatest tools that we can give to our kids and that we can utilize ourselves as moms and dads.

Kristin:  Yeah, giving them freedom to make discoveries on their own versus helicopter parenting where we’re hovering and trying to make sure they don’t fall, as you said with riding the bike and so on.

Lisa:  Yeah, because the fact of the matter is, we’re going to make those mistakes and those bad decisions and have those dark moments or those scary moments, and I think they’re tempered an awful lot by that power of positivity that we’re talking about because if we’ve been in a situation before that maybe didn’t work out, as a parent or as a child, and we understand that there’s another side to it, that we kind of have to navigate through the crappy part to get to the potentially good parts or figure out that what we just went through didn’t work, and how do we make it work.  By staying positive and kind of taking our learning from the things that didn’t go our way, we can kind of transform those things into that resilience that allows you to kind of power through and keep going.

Kristin:  Great advise.  Lisa, what are your thoughts on just changing the language as you’re having these teaching moments with kids and using positive words and affirmations versus anything as simple as, you know, “stop fighting.”  What would you use to replace some of the common parenting terms?

Lisa:  It’s hard because we’re all so naturally inclined to be like, cut it out or you made a mistake or that was a bad choice.  I think we’re just hard wired, a lot of us.  Just human nature hard wires us to blurt those things out, but we do need to soften things, and I think that for me, what I always tried to do with my own kids was really lead – and again, we just lean right back into positivity.  You lead with what was good about what they did.  What was helpful about what they did?  Good for you for trying that thing that you just messed up on, or you tried a new way and it didn’t work, or you tried a new way of, I don’t know, talking to a friend who you’re having a challenge with and it backfired in your face.  You maybe just didn’t follow the rules and you misbehaved.  Instead of hammering our kids about the things that they did wrong, try to kind of dig through that and get to the part that maybe is worthwhile, the parts that are helpful, and celebrate those things.  And then just watch your tone.  I think sometimes it’s not even what we say sometimes as much as it’s how we say it.  So even if you have to have a tough conversation with your child, start with that positivity, and then you just make sure that your tone is one that maybe is not necessarily approving, because maybe they did do something they shouldn’t have done, but you’re not chastising your kids.  Then they’re just going to shut down.  At whatever age, your kids aren’t going to respond if they think you’re screaming at them or you’re barking at them or you’re dictating to them.  So I think leading with whatever it was that they did that was positive and then just make sure you’re soft about the way that you have a conversation.  And maybe ask them.  And this is age-appropriate, too; if you maybe have a tween or a younger child who you can have a conversation with, ask that child, what do you think just happened that shouldn’t have happened?  Put it on them so that maybe you’re not the one giving the bad news or the hard feelings, and maybe let them do a little bit of soul-searching themselves to figure out what didn’t go right.

Kristin:  I love it.  So you use a lot of humor in your writing and on your appearances.  What role do you think humor can play in positive parenting?

Lisa:  I think it plays as much of – you know, the overarching umbrella of positivity is, I think, our biggest crutch.  Being able to laugh at all the stupid stuff that happens as a parent, I think that’s absolutely as clutch as anything else that we can lean into because how many times have we gone somewhere or done something or had an interaction with someone, and it’s just gone completely off the rails in a way that you just stop and think, this isn’t even possible, how badly this is going right now.  And we’ve got two choices in those moments.  We either kind of let it take us down, or we understand that it’s part of life.  Stupid things will absolutely happen, an stupid and silly, and it’s not to say that we have to make everything a joke, because everything is definitely not joke-worthy, but at the same time, too, we have to be able to laugh at ourselves.  Especially on the days when you’re struggling just to get up out of bed in the morning because maybe you were up with one of your kids late and night and you try to get dressed and you spill your coffee on yourself.  You can take that in one of two ways.  You can let it just take you down, or you can just look at yourself and say, well, just another day in the life of being a mom or being a dad.

Kristin:  Exactly.  The spit-up when you’re out in public or the diaper blowout.  There’s so many hilarious moments, if you look at it that way, of course.

Lisa:  Yeah, absolutely, and I think when we do choose to look at it – and it’s a choice.  We have to make that conscious choice to kind of frame it.  It’s the whole idea of, ugh, I have to do this, versus, oh, I get to do this.  It’s all how you spin it and frame it, and the more often that we can laugh at ourselves – because we’re all going through the same stuff.  We’re all dealing with those diaper blowouts and the vomit and the ridiculous moments, and we think that we’re not because parenting can be so isolating.  You’re kind of in your own little bubble dealing with your own stuff, and you forget that moms – millions of moms everywhere, dads everywhere, are covered in vomit.  It’s strength in numbers for sure, and there’s humor all over it.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  So how do you get both parents on board with positive parenting?  Many couples have different styles individually in parenting.

Lisa:  Yeah, I think getting both parents on board with just being positive is kind of symbolic of just getting both parents on board and cohesive in your parenting styles.  You really just, I think, have to kind of have a united front and really do a lot of really good communicating as a team, because that’s what you are.  It’s definitely a collaboration between both caregivers, and I think just talking about your approaches and being unified in your approaches and when a situation comes up, and it could go either way, you could just get furiously mad or completely flip out.  I think a good tip, and this is something that my husband and I do all the time – we still do all the time, and our daughters are 21 and almost 25.  If one of us sees the other one completely overreacting or maybe underreacting and we know that we’ve been consistent in a certain way that we parented, we’ll kind of nudge each other or we’ll take each other side.  We’ll give each other a gentle reminder of, like, hey, look, we kind of agreed that we would do this in this situation or this in that situation.  So I think it’s just staying unified and really communicating with each other about kind of what your core values are.  And when you can both recognize and appreciate how much positivity and humor plays into parenting, then I think you just kind of play off of each other, which my husband and I have done that for 25 years.  It’s a great alternative to being completely wrapped around the axle all the time, which is the other kind of state of mind that I think parents end up in so much of the time.  So we kind of nudge each other and remind each other to just see how dumb certain situations can be and laugh about it.

Kristin:  I love that.  And then also I think it’s key to get other caregivers on board with your parenting style, and as you said earlier, communication is key.  So not only with your husband, partner, but if you have a nanny, or sometimes grandparents are helping caregive.  So just really getting everyone on the same page.

Lisa:  Yeah, and I mean, the more consistent we can all be as kind of that big overarching unit of people who takes care of your kids – you’ve got teachers; you’ve got, like you said, caregivers and relatives and friends.  The more we can all be unified in the way that we interact with our kids, the better because it’s so hard to parent kids when you’re getting mixed messages, when mom says one thing and dad says the other; grandma lets you have free range.  I think there are a lot of parents who get very, very, I guess, timid about telling people how they want to parent their kids.  Like, for instance, parents who have, for instance, live-in grandparents who are an incredible source of help and support, and yet I see all the time – I am affiliated with some websites and portals and platforms where I talk a lot to new mothers who are struggling with the fact that maybe they live with their in-laws or family members and people are undermining their authority or their choices, and it can be really hard to voice that opinion and hold that line in terms of, like, hey, this is actually my child, and this is how I’m choosing or my partner and I are choosing to parent.  So it’s really important to have those conversations, and there are ways to do it, which goes back to what we talked about a few minutes ago as far as, you know, it’s what you say and how you say it, and I think if you’re gentle in the way that you have these conversations with people around you, people are going to understand.  You know, this is what you want; these are your expectations, and you just need to honor that.  You need to make sure the people who are helping you honor that.

Kristin:  Yes, exactly.  So what are your top tips for new parents to, again, begin applying positive parenting very early on?

Lisa:  I think one of the biggest things that a new mom or dad can do as a parent is actually take care of themselves.  Living in such a world of self-care imagery and self-care opportunities, and it’s wonderful; it’s amazing.  It’s so important just as a human being, but it’s even more important as a parent who’s responsible for taking care of a young child because it’s hard.  It’s really, really hard, and it’s frustrating, and it’s messy.  And like we said, it’s chaotic.  But when we’ve taken care of ourselves, and when we’re at least recharged and refreshed and our own basic needs are met, we’re going to be way more effective as moms and dads.  We get this brand new baby home or even have this young child at home, and everything is focused on this child and care and teaching and guiding and nurturing.  And we’ve, like, forgotten to eat breakfast and lunch and haven’t put on deodorant and forgot to shower and – you know, like, all these things.  And it’s the old oxygen mask in the airplane analogy.  And there’s no better analogy to describe the need for that as a new parent because they have you put on that oxygen mask first because you’re no good to anybody around you, let alone your small child, if you aren’t capable of functioning yourself.  So I think that’s one of the biggest tips and takeaways that I would hand off to a new parent.  And the other thing that I think is equally as important: don’t compare yourself to people around you.  Don’t compare yourself to the other moms and dads who are around you because that’s just – it’s a total trap, and we all fall into it.  You know, we compare our kids to the little kids on the playground and the moms to the moms on the playground and it just – that will crush you.  It will absolutely crush you because you can’t parent your child like another parent can.  And you can’t be the same kind of influence and have the same kind of successes that other families have because it’s a different family.  It’s a different dynamic.  There are different issues.  You’ve got to kind of just walk your own walk and learn to let go early on, I guess, is the way I would distill that tip down.  Just let it go.  Do your thing your way to the best of your ability for you own little family because you’re not in somebody else’s house under somebody else’s roof.  It’s yours and your house and your family.

Kristin:  I feel like the social media pressure to be perfect, whether it’s Instagram or Pinterest, that comparison game can really be a joy-killer.  So I love that.  We’ve all got struggles, despite what appearances may be.

Lisa:  Oh, yeah.  And I’m glad you said the social media piece because that nowadays, that plays such a massive role in kind of breaking people’s spirits, breaking parents’ spirits because you see all these videos of the moms who have redone their refrigerator with 7,000 different snacks, and everything is organized in a certain way, which is great; don’t get me wrong.  I’m all for food porn; I love it.  And organizationally, that’s my thing.  But you’ve got moms out there who can barely pour a bowl of cereal because they’ve got four kids and they’re working from home and two kids are in school.  So we need to kind of celebrate our own little wins and not spend all of our time looking at the perfect images that everybody’s putting – they’re curated.  Those are cultivated.  People are not putting themselves on social media at their worst and more disorganized, chaotic moments.  They’re putting them on when everything – the light is filtered just right and the fruit is just perfectly ripe.  It’s not reality, most of it.  You know, there are a lot of people out there who are being super real, and I love that, and that’s what you should be paying attention to, the people who are on social media kind of like tears in their eyes, saying this is really hard, and I buttoned my pants today and put on makeup and that’s my win for the day.  You know, that’s it.  And that’s the stuff we should be focusing on.

Kristin:  Exactly.  So how can our listeners get in touch with you?  You’ve got so many platforms, and of course, your book?

Lisa:  I’m kind of all over the place, actually.  I mean, anybody who wants to find out what I do can just go right to my website.  Or you can find me on Amazon.  All of my books are on Amazon or Barnes & Noble or in the stores where books are sold.  I’m on Instagram @lisa_sugarman and Facebook @thelisasugarman.  And I’m kind of nomadic.  I pop up everywhere.

Kristin:  I love it.  And of course you’ve got your radio show, and you’re making appearances everywhere.  You also mentioned that you’re on multiple platforms, so are you partnering with other sites, then?

Lisa:  I am.  I actually have done quite a bit of partnering over the years.  I work for – I write for and help develop content for a very cool platform out of Houston, Texas called SocialMama that’s kind of like Tinder for moms.  It helps moms connect with other moms based around their area and their kind of geolocation area, and also moms that have unique needs, like maybe you have a child with autism or you have a child with severe allergies or you’re looking for someone who can really relate with you and kind of the parenting journey that you’re on.  So I help with content creation there.  I’m one of their parenting experts.  I also partner with a company called Helpen that is helping families teach children kindness and generosity and gratitude and empathy through prompts at the dinner table.  They’re like little postcard prompts at the dinner table and through micro donations that you give to nonprofits, teaching your children how to pay it forward, and I do a lot of content creation for them, as well.  And then our radio show that I do with my co-author, Deb Gansenberg, is Life Unfiltered, and you can find all the episodes on iTunes or IHeartRadio.  We’re all over the place.

Kristin:  Amazing.  Thank you so much for everything that you shared with us.  These tips for positive parenting are amazing.  I will share the resources and some of the platforms you’re involved with, not only with our doula clients, but also our Becoming A Mother students.  I think they would be very interested in the SocialMama platform.

Lisa:  That’s great.  Yeah, they’d love it.  They would absolutely love it.  They’re a great resource there.

Kristin:  Thanks so much, Lisa!

Lisa:  It was my pleasure!  Thanks for having me!

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

Kristin and Ameya Duprey discuss the root causes of postpartum imbalances and how to heal them.  Ameya is an Ayurvedic practitioner, postpartum doula and author.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on SoundCloud, iTunes, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Hello, hello!  This is Kristin with Ask the Doulas, and I am joined today by Ameya Duprey.  Ameya is a postpartum doula trained in traditional Ayurvedic care, and you’re also a massage therapist, an author, course creator, and so many other things.  Welcome, Ameya!

Ameya:  Thank you so much.  It’s really a joy to be here with you today.

Kristin:  So I would love to hear how you got into the important work of supporting women with traditional methods of healing.

Ameya:  Yeah.  So it all started with my Ayurveda training.  I became an Ayurvedic practitioner first, focusing on detoxification of the body.  It’s called panchakarma.  So I did that for many years, but while I was getting that training back in 2000, I became pregnant with my daughter.  So I had her really young.  I was 22 when I had her.  But I did have some Ayurvedic training already, but it honestly wasn’t enough.  When I had her, I had lots of problems myself.  I didn’t really know about Ayurvedic postpartum care.  I had a friend who was an Ayurvedic postpartum doula.  They’re called Ayur doulas.  And so when I was three weeks postpartum, she came over and offered me a massage, which was really wonderful.  And it was at that time that she put this – planted this seed, where she was like, why don’t you do this work?  Why don’t you become an Ayur doula?  And at the time, I was totally overwhelmed and just had a baby.  You know, she was colicky.  My birth was super difficult, and all this stuff.  So I filed that away for later, and then in 2011, Ysha Oakes, who is the only woman teaching Ayurvedic postpartum care in the country – I knew about her, but she came to Grass Valley, California, where I live now and lived then back in 2011, and she offered a training to become an Ayur doula, so that’s when I did it.  And for me, between my own personal journey with postpartum healing and recovery and how difficult it all was for me, between that and the knowledge and work that I was already doing with Ayurvedic and detoxification therapies – it’s funny because recovering from birth is the opposite of detoxification.  It’s rejuvenation.  But some of the techniques and therapies that are used are actually similar.  So in that time frame, I guess back in 2005, I became a massage therapist to complement and legitimize my detoxification work because it involves oil massage, what they call abhyanga and other things.  So it just was very easy for me.  I love food, and I love healing the body with food.  And Ayurveda is known for that.  It uses – that was the thing that originally got me into Ayurveda was being able to use the spices in my kitchen to heal and balance the body.  I just was really excited to learn the work and just knowing how little information there really is about how to actually heal from birth.  So that is how I got into being an Ayurvedic postpartum doula and have been working since then, seeing clients in their homes, and then back in 2017 was when I started my blog, Shakticare, and started trying to get the information out there to the masses of how to actually heal your body with natural methods from birth and make a full recovery.  Since then, I have an online presence, as well, and have been – I created my book, Mama’s Menu, which is an Ayurvedic postpartum cookbook, and I also have my online postpartum recovery program now, Fully Healed Mama.

Kristin:  That’s amazing.  We really don’t have access to resources like yours in Michigan, so I love that you had the insight early on to really create this comprehensive blog and resources for women no matter where they live.

Ameya:  Yeah, and that’s the thing because there’s only a limited supply of Ayurvedic postpartum doulas, and they’re not cheap, either.  It’s important for mamas to be able to access that information wherever they live.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  So what are your top tips for healing in the postpartum phase for our listeners who may not be, again, familiar with Ayurveda?

Ameya:  Yeah.  So Ayurveda, for those of you who don’t know, is the traditional healing science from India that dates back at least 5,000 years, since before really the written word.  And so there’s an Ayurvedic way to do everything.  Between the food that you eat, the exercise that you do, to the way you heal your body after birth.  And if you have heard of Ayurveda, you may have heard of the three doshas, and three doshas are – you know, they are body types, but they’re also just made up of the five elements.  So in Ayurveda, there are five elements instead of four.  Space or ether is the fifth one.  So it’s space, air, fire, water, and earth.  And when you have a baby, all mamas have the same imbalance, and that is the vata imbalance, which is made up of the air and ether elements.  So those are out of whack, out of balance after birth, and so that is the main thing that we need to work on to bring back into balance.  And how air and ether elements manifest in qualities – so we can just say vata to make it a little more easy, but they have – vata consists of certain qualities, like cold, light, mobile or changing, irregular, dry, for example.  So after birth, all of these qualities manifest in your body, like cold, for example.  Through the process of birthing, you’re expelling so much energy to birth creation into this world, so your whole body goes cold.  That means your digestion goes cold, but also you have, like, bad circulation, and your whole body is cold, and so that is something that is the case for everyone.  And so the best way to deal with that is to bring warmth back into your body.  So with your diet, you need to rekindle your digestion so that you can digest your food and nourish your body and nourish your baby if you’re breastfeeding, and you need to make sure that you have – you’re staying in a warm, cozy room and taking hot baths and drinking only warm water.  If you give birth in a hospital, don’t let them feed you ice water.  It’s really bad for you.  Yeah, your system is very sensitive after you give birth, so you have to pay attention to that.  It’s another quality of vata that gets imbalances.  So it can manifest, for example, making you feel out of it, spacey, your mind all over the place kind of thing.  And so that – you can help that by eating grounding foods and putting heavy blankets over you, and even having some warm oil on your head.  Anything that you can do to help ground you will really just help in general after you give birth and your recovery.

Kristin:  And as you mentioned, massage with the warming oils and things.

Ameya:  Yeah, absolutely.  And this other quality, mobile or just change, there’s just so much change in your hormones, in your body, in your family dynamics, in your partner dynamics.  It can just be really overwhelming and hard to process it all.  So routine is crucial after birth.  That way you can – again, it’s about grounding everything and so that you’re not, like, wondering what you should be doing next every single second.  A lot of mamas experience lots of anxiety and definitely worry and everything after birth, and honestly, that is just a manifestation of vata.  Anxiety is a classic manifestation of vata, and of course, after you have a baby, then there’s just – it’s different.  What if something happens to me?

Kristin:  So many different thoughts, for sure.

Ameya:  Yeah, so many different thoughts.  I think every mama has that thought.  So yeah, just so much change, and to recognize that, and there are things that we can do to help that, and having a healing routine is really helpful to be able to just kind of ground that and not have to worry about what you’re doing next and just get settled into that routine.

Kristin:  Perfect.  So outside of your blog, what other resources would you recommend for women who wanted to learn more about ways that they can cure imbalance and heal?  Your website is your primary source, and can they find resources on your master class and the cookbook and so on, directly from those sites, or how do you best suggest we all connect with you?

Ameya:  Yes, my website does have everything on it.  I do highly recommend my free master class on how to heal from birth without feeling stressed out and exhausted.  It’s a really valuable training that I feel like every mama should watch.  There, you’ll learn three mistakes that most new mamas make and how to avoid them, as well as learn about my natural recovery method that I’ve created.  The natural recovery method is something that all mamas can do anywhere in the world, and you don’t have to have me as your personal Ayur doula, but it does come from my personal work, working with mamas in their homes.  And so I just simplified it and created a system that can work for all mamas everywhere.

Kristin:  Beautiful.  And you mentioned that your cookbook is part of that, so they can get more information?

Ameya:  Yeah, my cookbook, if you end up deciding to join my program, Fully Healed Mama, my cookbook is one of the free bonuses, and you get a physical copy.  It doesn’t matter wherever in the world that you live; it will be sent to you.  And I know getting a physical copy of a cookbook is really, really nice.  Most mamas prefer that, so that’s why I do that.  If you only wanted to get the cookbook, then you can do so from my website, which is the best way to support me, as well as my daughter who did all the pictures and the editing of the book, so it is a family affair.  That’s wonderful, and then you can get it also on Amazon if you’d like.  I do have also electronic copies available on Amazon for Kindle and also on iTunes if you wanted to just get the ebook version.

Kristin:  Lovely.  And you’re also on social and other channels, so Instagram and Facebook?  Can they find you on other social media networks?

Ameya:  Yeah, I’m on Instagram.  My handle is shakticare.  And on Facebook, you can find me at myshakticare.  And that’s really if you want to have a direct conversation with me, you can just give me a direct message.  I’m on my devices a lot, so I’ll get it.  So that’s really – if you have any questions, that’s a really great way to get a hold of me.

Kristin: And again, you offer virtual consultations, so if someone wanted to work with you direct virtually, that’s certainly an option beyond your master class, correct?

Ameya:  Yes, yes.  I do offer one on one sessions, and you can find that information on my website.  I offer different packages depending on what your needs are.  And then my online program, Fully Healed Mama, is a wonderful program.  It’s definitely my best value.  And not only do you receive all of – I teach you how to fully heal from birth and feel amazing again, even better than before you were pregnant is the feedback that I’ve gotten, but also you do have access to me daily, actually, in my – we have a private Facebook group with my Fully Healed Mama program that I answer questions every day, and I also do – every three weeks, I do live Q&A calls.

Kristin:  That’s incredible.  Well, thank you for sharing all of your amazing resources, and I will have to pick up a copy of your book.  I’ll make sure to order it directly from your website, and I so appreciate your time, Ameya.  Thank you for again chatting and sharing all of your resources.

Ameya:  Yeah.  It was really my pleasure.  Thank you for having me.

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

Kristin chats with Naomi Coe, founder of Little Crown Interiors and author of Your Perfect Nursery about nursery trends and nursery safety.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Welcome to Ask the Doulas.  This is Kristin, and I’m here today with Naomi Coe.  Naomi is the founder of Little Crown Interiors and the author of Your Perfect Nursery.  Her design studio focuses solely on nursery and child spaces, blending together beauty, functionality, and safety.  Naomi’s work has been featured widely in print, web, and on television including Domino, People Magazine, HGTV, and many more.  Little Crown Interiors is located in southern California and also does e-designs across the US.  Welcome, Naomi!

Naomi:  Hi, thanks for having me!

Kristin:  So excited to chat with you.  So let’s get into some of the topics related to nursery design and prepping for baby.

Naomi:  Yes, so as you mentioned, I specialize in nursery design, and it’s a very interesting specialization because I’m dealing primarily with first-time parents.  So there’s a lot of kind of specialized information.  There’s a lot of safety and functionality that goes along with it.  So it’s very different than typical interior design for a living room or a kitchen or things like that.

Kristin:  That makes perfect sense.  So what are you seeing to start out with trends that are coming up with nursery design, and what is out there as far as the newest furniture pieces or accessories for nurseries?

Naomi:  So there’s good news and bad news.  The good news is that there is so much out there now, and any trend that you see that you want to take part in for your nursery, there’s a good chance you’ll be able to find pieces and décor that fit with that, and that’s also kind of the bad news, which is that there’s just so much out there.  And a lot of my clients come to me, and they’re just completely overwhelmed.  So if there’s a specific style or trend that they’re looking for or that they’ve saved some Instagram images, then I definitely can help guide them towards that.  As far as trends that I’m seeing now, I would say some of the bigger ones are definitely neutrals, and that goes both for neutral color palettes and also gender neutral spaces.  We’re seeing a lot more of just those colors, the soft, you know, whites and creams and layered texture, but then also a lot of parents who are choosing not to find out the sex of the baby or who want to specifically not plan around that.  So those are both things that I’m seeing a lot of in the last six months to a year, which is kind of exciting, I think, especially the not working specifically within the gendered baby idea.  So it doesn’t have to be pink for girls and blue for boys anymore, which is great, and not only for just the well-being of the families, but also for creativity in the space.  It lets you out of the box.

Kristin:  Definitely.  And then if your clients end up wanting to expand their family and keep that room as a dedicated nursery, it could work with future babies, as well?

Naomi:  Exactly, yes.  It’s much more versatile.  And I think that versatility has really become something parents are looking for post-COVID.  I’ve noticed this switch whereas before a lot of people were more open to very individualistic spaces, and now because everyone was forced to stay at home for that period of time, everyone’s looking for versatility.  How can I use this space for multiple functionalities?  Maybe it’s going to end up being an office.  Maybe it’s going to end up being a shared room, all of this stuff.  So that versatility is something people are very aware of now.

Kristin:  That makes sense.  So as far as your clients that are on a tight budget, what are the things that you would most recommend spending your money on versus what you can find a different way to either do it yourself with some of the décor items, or what is worth hiring a professional, whether it’s a painter or whatever it might be?

Naomi:  There’s a lot of wiggle room there because the bare bones nursery as far as just the items you need, and when I say need, I mean, you know, for function and safety, there’s very few things.  So a lot of the rest of the nursery ends up being décor and things that just make you feel good.  So of course, my job, being an interior designer, is to make the space feel really nice for the client, and the budget’s going to get allocated depending on what they think that means.  So I have clients who find a crib that they just are obsessed with, and they have to have that crib, and it’s expensive.  So then we can do non-custom window treatments, or we can do art work from Etsy or things like that to kind of layer in.  No problem at all with doing some pieces that are splurge and some that are save, assuming of course that they’re safe.  So as far as generally, I would say the crib and the changing table or dresser and your glider, so the three kind of cornerstone pieces, should be good enough quality that they’ll last, because you don’t want to end up in a situation where you have to just buy new furniture in a couple of years, which ends up costing more.  So the crib, you might not use for too long, but you might get one that’s convertible, which means it can turn into a toddler bed and then give you a couple more years, but you want a piece that’s strong enough to hold up to a toddler who might chew on it or jump around on it or all the things that toddlers do, and the same goes for the dresser.  You know, they might slam the drawers.  They might try to climb on it.  You want a piece that’s going to be sturdy and not tip over because that’s of course a safety issue, especially with lighter weight dressers.  So you want a heavier, good quality dresser; strap it to the wall with earthquake safety straps, things like that.  The glider is really just the piece that you as a parent are going to spend a ton of time in and fall asleep in and do midnight feedings in, so you want to make sure that it is comfortable and a nice piece that you can really enjoy.  So that’s my advice for splurging.  Everything else can be worked around, I think.

Kristin:  And then what do you see as far as clients who want to room in initially with a bassinet near the bed?  Are they factoring some of those things in as they’re in the nesting stage and really planning out their space, and all of the different areas of the house the baby may be in at different times of the day?

Naomi:  Yeah, so that’s actually kind of a funny little side part of my job, which is kind of – there’s an overlap between just the nursery and then these other things that you’re planning for as a new parent.  So there is going to be overlap with what’s going on in the bedroom and maybe even what’s happening in the living room or kitchen.  If there’s a two-story home, we might need to do a separate little changing area downstairs or have a little travel changing pad in a drawer somewhere, things like that.  And the bassinets, of course, I recommend no matter what, even if a parent isn’t really planning on having one, because things change and you may kind of try the bassinet, try the crib, see what works for you and the baby.  Some people may skip the bassinet and then realize that they are just terrified all night long and need the baby close to them.  So there’s a lot of transition and trial and error in those first few months.

Kristin:  Definitely.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  And as you mentioned, having different set-ups throughout the house because depending on – you know, with that healing phase postnatal, some women may not be able to go up and down stairs and really need to have different stations set up within their house, and they probably wanted to still be – you know, have a similar design feel to the rest of their house, so either stowing it away or having a set up in the bedroom, living room, or a guest room downstairs.

Naomi:  Exactly.  And this actually – it’s funny that you brought up the bassinets because one of the big, popular ones, I’m sure you’ve heard of, is the Snoo.

Kristin:  Yes.

Naomi:  Yeah, it’s super helpful, but one thing that I’ve found a lot of people don’t realize when they buy it is how heavy it is.  It’s not something you can just bring downstairs.

Kristin:  No, not at all.

Naomi:  So I always people specifically, are you planning on getting the Snoo or any other heavy piece like that because if they haven’t thought about how they’re going to deal with the up and down stairs problem or if they have a different area, something like that, then they might need two, or a Moses basket or some other little safe spot to park the baby.

Kristin:  And I know you are very concerned about safety.  So what are your top tips as you’re planning out different nursery and household items with your clients about staying on top of recalls, making sure you’re, again, spending on the important things?  So like the crib, for example, and saving elsewhere?  So what are your top tips for safety?

Naomi:  I’ve got a bunch.  Safety is such an integral part of our design process, so I would say the first thing is the placement of the crib.  I don’t think a lot of people realize how important that is.  Now, I’m in California, so of course we have to deal with earthquake safety.  But I think people who are not in earthquake areas think that it’s not as big of a deal, but it still is.  With the crib, you definitely do not want to place it under a window, even if you’re not in an earthquake or hurricane area, because there’s other things that can happen with the window, such as drafts, or even a sunburn can happen through a badly placed window.  You’ve got a neighbor who, you know, hits a baseball through your window.  There’s all kinds of scenarios where you just don’t want to place a crib in front of a window.  So there’s definitely first and foremost.  Try to find a wall in your space that doesn’t have any openings, and aside from that, keeping other furniture and other items away from the crib if possible, so when you get little arms sticking through the crib rails, there’s nothing that they can grab or use to kind of crawl out or climb out of the crib.  That’s another thing, as well.  And then of course there’s the sleep issues with cribs, so bumpers, we don’t use anymore.  Any blankets and pillows that go inside the crib, we don’t use those anymore, at least for a certain amount of time.  So there’s a lot with cribs.  So I definitely recommend researching the safety and placement of the crib.  I recommend talking to your doctor about the sleep safety and then also signing up for the CPSC newsletter.  CPSC is Consumer Product Safety Commission, so they’ll send you a newsletter that has recall information specifically for juveniles.  I just got one this morning with seven recalls.  It’s crazy.  So definitely sign up for that.  It’s cpsc.org, and then you can at least know that if something happens with a stroller or a car seat or a crib or anything, you’ll get an email.  The second thing with safety and nurseries I always run into is window treatments because a lot of people will have – they’ll plan on using the window treatments that are already in the room, which is usually something like blinds or a Roman shade or something that has cords that hang down, and cords are a huge problem in nurseries because children can get wrapped up in them and they can become a strangulation hazard.  So I definitely recommend any cords either have to be removed or completely tied up and then monitored, as well, which is even more important in the nursery, having a good monitor where you can see what’s happening.  Because some children just don’t care, and they will never try to get the cord, but some children will make it their life’s mission to get the cord, so I think monitoring really well and paying attention to your child’s specific habits is also very important.

Kristin:  Yes.  And then do your clients discuss blackout curtains and things for optimal sleeping environment?

Naomi:  Yeah, so that’s a funny one because the sleep training process is so difficult for a lot of people, and it’s something that may not even come to fruition until after the baby is born.  So we try to plan that in advance, and I usually tell people – you know, most people end up with blackouts, like a blackout drape, but some people want to train their baby to sleep with some daylight.  Other babies absolutely cannot sleep if there’s the tiniest bit of light, and so it really again comes to that trial and error.  But since we’re doing the nursery beforehand, we usually just start with blackouts, and we can kind of adjust if needed.  And then if a sleep consultant comes in, things might need to change a little bit.  It really just depends, unfortunately.

Kristin:  Right.  And like you said, some families may not ever need it, but you’re right, a lot of people just, especially if they just purchased the house, I see a lot of our doula clients are going through a lot of major transitions at once, so buying a new house or remodeling their current while they’re expecting, and so they might not even think about changing up curtains and blinds and so on.  So it’s good to think about that.

Naomi:  Right.  And one thing we do fairly often if budget allows is to do a double layer drape.  So we’ll do a non-blackout layer, and then a blackout layer on top so they have flexibility to use either down the line.

Kristin:  That’s very helpful.  So as far as women who really want to look at holistic planning of not only the remainder of their pregnancy but also for that first year postnatal, what are your top tips for that nesting phase and how to really plan for this time when you’re going to be homebound for a bit and bonding with baby?

Naomi:  Yeah, so there’s a couple of things there.  The first, of course, is – you may have noticed, my book is called Your Perfect Nursery, not “the perfect nursery.”  That’s because it’s very important to make this space something that you as a parent feel comfortable in.  The baby won’t care, I promise.  So I think that that’s the most important part is making it a space that you’re comfortable in, that you feel safe in, that you can fall asleep in, because that’s going to happen, and you’re going to have late nights and uncomfortable moments, so I think that making the nursery as comfortable as possible is great.  It will give you a space that you can share memories in but also just feel good in.

Kristin:  So do you find that your clients are thinking about their own bedroom during maternity and paternity leave and wanting to transform that space, in addition to the nursery, as they’re planning out this time when they’re homebound for a bit?

Naomi:  Not usually in any major way.  Sometimes we will do a – you know, like we mentioned before, a bassinet.  Occasionally we’ll do a second glider or a little cozy corner or something if they have space in their home.  And again, we’re in California, so we don’t have as large real estate.  A lot of nurseries are very small, and bedrooms are also fairly small.  So it just depends.  But yeah, the other thing I just remembered is that during the nesting phase, a lot of parents get heavy into organization.  And they start getting gifts, and they start shopping, and then they have just piles of clothes and things and toys, and nowhere to put them yet.  So I think that planning for organization is something that makes a lot of expecting parents feel really good and feel really satisfied.  So working on those things can be great and coming up with little bins and things to put all your little knick-knacks and blankets in and shelving for books and all these things.

Kristin:  Yeah, that’s a great thing to do during that nesting phase when you’re waiting for baby is to organize, wash all the clothing.  And we always tell our clients to register for services rather than things, because people will buy whatever they want.  They’ll even go off the registry.   You don’t need all of the things immediately, so services like design or a postpartum doula or sleep consultant or a meal delivery service, whatever it might be, versus having all of these extra things with nowhere to put them.

Naomi:  Yeah, and I see a lot of clients, too, registering for toddler items, like little plates and forks and things.  I have the same conversation because I end up dealing with a registry because we end up with a crib mattress, diaper pail, stuff like that will be kind of a crossover that I’ll work on, and yeah, I usually end up telling them, you don’t need size two clothes on your registry.  You don’t need this stuff because you’re just going to get overwhelmed by it, and chances are in two years, you’re going to want something different.

Kristin:  Right, because everything changes as far as fashion.  It’s so true.  Good tips.  So I’d love to get more into your book, Naomi, Your Perfect Nursery.  It is such a labor of love to become an author and go through that process.  What inspired you to devote your time and talents to creating this beautiful book?

Naomi:  Thank you, first of all.  So it definitely – it was a very long process, but I do a lot of research, and I’ve read, you know, the preparing for baby books, and I have a list of all of those and stuff.  And I started noticing that most of them only have a very small chapter on the nursery, and it’s not very specific.  It’s usually just kind of some function and some safety, and that’s it.  And then when you combine that with the just insane amount of imagery we’re all exposed to now on social media and Pinterest and whatever, there was no resource to guide people through that.  It’s just, here’s a little bit of safety, and then here is ten million images.  You figure it out.  And my brain is very – I’m, like, a spreadsheet person and super kind of hyper-organized.  So I just started creating an outline really just based on exactly how I design nurseries, and over the years, I added and added and added, and eventually was like, okay, I could turn this into something.  So I was lucky enough to get a book deal with Simon & Schuster, and then we got it published, and it’s comprehensive.  I mean, it really is, like I said, everything that I do when I design a nursery, which is everything.

Kristin:  Yeah, it’s wonderful, and I’m so excited to be able to share it with clients and with our Becoming a Mother students.  What a wonderful resource!

Naomi:  Thank you!  I didn’t want to write a book that, when you’re done reading it, you just feel like you have to hire somebody to do it.  You know?  I think that there’s a lot of books out there like that where they don’t really give you all the secrets, you know what I mean?  So I really wanted this to be a resource where people can use it, and they can get the exact information and then they can do it.  They can do it themselves.

Kristin:  Perfect.  So how can our listeners find your book?

Naomi:  It is anywhere the books are sold, so it’s on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, all of those book websites.

Kristin:  Perfect.  And how else can our listeners connect with you?  I know you have a website and different social media avenues?

Naomi:  Yes, my website is littlecrowninteriors.com, and I’m also on Instagram @littlecrowninteriors.  Pretty easy to find; you can Google me.  Little Crown Interiors or Naomi Coe.

Kristin:  And you have a lot of great content on your website, and as you mentioned earlier, you work both virtually and in person with clients in California.  So our listeners from anywhere have the opportunity to either buy your book and/or work with you one on one?

Naomi:  Yeah.  We’ve been doing e-designs, virtual designs, for years, and then of course when COVID happened, that just blew up.  So we’ve been doing a ton of virtual designs and guiding people through the installation process and ordering process themselves.  And then we do just one-hour virtual consultations, and we have a very active blog, which has a lot of information on it, as well.

Kristin:  Perfect.  So any last minute tips for our listeners?

Naomi:  Oh, there’s just so many things.  I think what I always try to drive home, which I mentioned a little bit, is just to make the space really about you.  And it doesn’t necessarily require a lot of money to do that, you know?  There are so many things that you can get to make a space feel really special and personal that aren’t expensive furniture.  And I think even things like heirlooms or hand-me-downs, things that are special to you, to fill out that space.  I always recommend trying to put as many touches in there as possible that make you feel really nice and make you feel good, and that goes for one parent, both parents.  If there’s even another caregiver in the home, I think just rounding it out so when you walk in there, you just take a breath, and you feel good.  You feel great.

Kristin:  Thank you so much, Naomi!  It was wonderful to learn from you, and I hope all of our listeners check out your book because it is beautiful and so comprehensive.

Naomi:  Thank you!  Thank you so much!

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

Kristin chats with Gail Janicola about what it means to have the ultimate birth experience.  Gail is a birth expert, author of “The Ultimate Birth Experience,” and a mommy mentor.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Hello, hello.  This is Kristin with Ask the Doulas, and I am joined today by Gail Janicola.  Gail is a national board-certified health and wellness coach.  She is the founder of Moms On Top, which is an educational resource for parents and parents-to-be.  She is also known as the mommy mentor and lives in New York.  She’s been a birth professional for over 26 years as an educator, a coach, a doula, and a doula trainer.  So wow, Gail.  So many accomplishments!

Gail:  I guess it sounds really nice when somebody else says it.

Kristin:  And you’re an author, so how does one balance all of that?

Gail:  Oh, my goodness, well, it’s almost 27 years, so I guess you just have to spread it out a lot.

Kristin:  And you’re a mother as well?  You have three grown children, correct?

Gail:  Yes.

Kristin:  So Gail, I am so fascinated by the topics you cover in your book, The Ultimate Birth Experience.  And it’s all about taking control and proactively choosing your birthing options that are best for you and your baby, communicating your needs, and so much of this content is what we discuss in our online Becoming a Mother course because it’s so important, especially during the times of COVID, to really be clear about the type of support that you want and communicating your needs with your medical team, your professional team, your personal support.  So I love the premise of your book.

Gail:  Yeah.  A lot of synergy, Kristin, I feel that we have, because that is our focus.  I know it’s your focus, also.  It’s my focus in everything that I do because it’s not just about the information, even though the information is so important.  But it is about empowering yourself to figure out how to communicate effectively, how to advocate for yourself.  Because it doesn’t matter; you can have all the information in the world, but if you’re not skilled in those areas and you don’t have a perspective of yourself as a consumer in your life and of course in birth specifically, then it doesn’t matter.  You can have all that information, and it sort of goes to waste.

Kristin:  Exactly.  So you’re right, it’s not just about taking a childbirth class and a tour of the hospital, if that’s even an option in your area.  If you don’t know your options, you don’t have any.  So really understanding the full scope of what is available to you, everything from physical therapists to, later on, a pelvic floor therapist to thinking about a postpartum doula and a birth doula.

Gail:  Yeah.  It’s all the stuff that so many people don’t know exists.  All of those resources.  I certainly didn’t know they existed when I was having my children, and the issue that I see happening all the time, as I’m sure you do, is that people go through the birthing process, and even if they have the most amazing experience and they were informed and they did work with a birth team that they felt was on the same page as them and supportive, unfortunately, you get into the postpartum period, and then if you have not really set your ducks up, at least just in knowledge – it doesn’t mean you have to hire people in advance necessarily, although I am a big advocate for hiring a lactation consultant or having a relationship with one beforehand.  But if you don’t know who exists out there, then you’re scrambling, and you’re scrambling at a time where you’re so vulnerable and feeling so lost.  It’s hard to become an advocate in that moment.

Kristin:  Exactly.  Yes, and in the moment, you know, in the birthing space itself, sometimes you might have a written birth plan, but if you don’t have a doula or your partner reminding you, you get lost in the moment.  I know with my own births, I had moments where everything was going out the window.  Once you hit that transition phase…

Gail:  Yeah, it’s hard.  Nobody’s sugarcoating – or I should say, I’m not sugarcoating it, and the whole process is not necessarily all rainbows and unicorns, but it’s the most miraculous, awesome time in somebody’s life.  This experience has the power to truly transform you forever and ever.  So to kind of brush it off as just an event that you have to get past and allowing everybody else to commandeer that event and you having no part or control in your own experience – first of all, of course, it could end up with trauma, which is very upsetting, but it also – it’s such a waste of this opportunity to create that level of confidence and that ability to, you know, to use the word again, to advocate, but also to pull together your resources, because think about how many times in your life you’re going to need that and probably have already needed it, even before you got pregnant.  But going forward as a parent, how many times – you know this, Kristin – how many times have we had to step in and figure things out at least initially for our children?  But really, I have adult children.  It never ends where they’re coming to you and they’re looking for guidance and things are happening in their lives, and to be a parent who can manage that, who can understand it, who can oversee it, who can support it – I mean, this is where I sit now in my life, so I can tell you that what I did, at least in my last birth experience, because I was truly ignorant in my first two.  But once I became a professional and then I had another child, I can look back on that now and see that that experience and everything I did throughout that experience has informed so much of my life since.

Kristin:  I would agree, with my own experiences and having doulas a second time around.  I felt so much more prepared and empowered.  And there’s so many unknowns, just like you described in parenting.  You need to adapt and make big decisions throughout parenthood, even with adult children, and so really preparing with the uncertainties and assembling the right team around you makes a big difference.  I felt like my team was on board with my wishes and I knew I needed to be flexible, but I had preparation and a plan, and I felt like birth wasn’t just happening to me.  And that’s what I want for all of my clients and students, for them to feel like they had some control, unless of course it was an emergency.

Gail:  Right.  And then even when it is an emergency – I mean, that’s really the – you know, you’re swinging the pendulum all the way to one side when we talk about emergencies and crises, because although we hear about those things a lot because they make for great stories and they’re very dramatic – I mean, birth typically is not filled with crises.  Birth is typically a physiological event.  But wherever it is on that spectrum, whether it goes exactly as you thought it would, which is hardly ever does, or you have options and decisions and different paths to take along the way, and then sometimes in situations where you have to participate kind of as a spectator because there’s a crisis, I still very, very much believe that knowing what you can know in advance, having evidence-based information, having been surrounded for a period of time during pregnancy with those who honor birth, who see it a certain way, who have a certain perspective, and then going through whatever it is that your unique experience is going to give to you —you will come out of it as a different person.  You know, I always say to my students, my one goal for you, because I know I can guarantee this, where I can’t really guarantee exactly what your birth experience is going to look like, but my one goal is for you not to have any regrets.  So disappointment, yes.  That may very well happen.  Sometimes even grief for a lost goal and having to kind of sort through that and debrief and figure that out for yourself and get the support you need – yes, that happens.  But to be able to look back and say, I know I did everything that I could.  I know I was conscious.  I know I had communicated effectively, and I put my birth team together effectively.  I know I had the support I needed, and I know that I was able to make those decisions, those unique decisions, for myself in partnership with my team in the moment – again, to use the word, it is really powerful when you can look back and feel all of that.

Kristin:  Exactly.  It’s so powerful.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  And then to get your partner on board with your vision and really support that.  I know you talk a lot about preparing for birth and assembling, again, your team and picking the right provider, but how can a partner best support this process and the goals that the birthing person sets?

Gail:  So I guess the overarching thing that I would say is that a partner needs to understand that they’re in this together.   You know, so many times I will hear partners say that before they became educated, before they went maybe through the process of a childbirth education course, they felt like they were just on the sidelines, that they were kind of pushed into the corner and they had to just – and I get it.  I understand that feeling.  I’m respecting that feeling of, like, well, especially physically, this is not happening to me, so how can I make decisions?  How can I even speak up, because I don’t really deserve that.  It’s not helpful to have that belief system, that perspective, around birth, even though it seems like it’s selfless in some ways, but that feeling of being helpless is certainly not going to be serving to the mom who’s going through this labor but also to your relationship and also to the entire birthing experience.  I would say that for most of us, if we were asked, what is the most important thing, we would say, well, we want the safest experience, right?  We want this to be safe.  And then a close second, even though I think they should be equal, would be that it should be the best experience.  It should be the most uniquely best experience for you, for this couple, for this family.  So if that is the case, if that is indeed the goal, then partners must be more involved.  Yes, I agree that at the end of the day, if we’re talking about – you know, sometimes it comes up around pain medication, and they’ll say, well, I can’t tell her not to get pain medication or to get pain medication.  And I think, well, there you go.  It’s like now you’re taking the role of a doula.  That’s true.  That’s not your role.  You don’t tell her what to do and what not to do.  But you have that beautiful experience prior to going into labor where you are building this bond around this experience, and you get to talk about it together.  You are the ones who are going to unfold the plan, just like if you got married, maybe you worked together to unfold the plan of your wedding or you’ve gone on vacation and you unfolded that plan together.  So that’s kind of the way that I hope partners can feel that their role is vital.  It’s absolutely vital.

Kristin:  Yeah.  I mean, their connection is central, and even if a doula is involved, we can step back and help husbands and partners find tips to be hands-on or be that emotional support that she needs in the moment.

Gail:  Yeah.  I love that you have brought up a lot that whole idea of a birth team.  So just like a tiny little story, because I think this is really relevant to partners: when I was in the beginning of my career, my doula partner and I at the time – now, remember, back then, most people didn’t even hear of the word doula.  They didn’t know what a doula was.  So we were asked to go to a local hospital to do an in-service for the nurses to discuss exactly what a doula was; what did we do.  And we were met, as you can imagine, with a decent amount of resistance, and when we talked about what it is that we do, we had a couple of nurses say to us, well, that’s what we do.  You know, we provide emotional support.  We help couples to figure out what they want to do.  Whatever it was that we were talking about, they were feeling very aligned with that role and feeling defensive that we were going to come in and potentially take over that role.  And what we explained, which is exactly what I would say to a partner, is that even though there is always going to be overlap, every single person on the team has a very special place that they need to recognize.  You know, they have their strengths.  And they also have situations where they may want to have a certain goal, but they can’t for some reason.  So for nurses, of course, if you are caring for three people in labor, you can’t like a doula stay with this person the entire time.

Kristin:  Exactly.  And charting and monitoring and – yes.

Gail:  Yeah, I was just going to say that.  They have to provide clinical support.  They have to do, you know, whatever they have to do.  They have to start IVs.  And that is not the role of a doula.  So for a partner, a partner is a doula in a sense, but a partner also is a parent.  They’re the parent-to-be.  They’re experiencing this so very, very personally, unlike a doula, and they can provide that extreme – I mean, I’m a very nurturing person.  I feel like I could meet somebody and instantly love them and nurture them, but I am not the partner.  I don’t know this person intimately.  So that connection is invaluable during a birth, and I hope that partners can start to recognize that and not feel like they’re so useless.

Kristin:  And we can give partners a break.  I mean, the last birth I attended, the husband was able to make some phone calls to family and go down to the cafeteria, and he knew that his wife was taken care, that I would call if anything changed, and so he was able to take that moment that he needed to regroup and come back and fully engage in the birth process.

Gail:  In all the years I’ve practiced, Kristin, I know that you feel this way as well.  When I would have those postpartum meetings, I would hear even more from the partner than from the birthing person, I would hear the partner say, oh my gosh, having a doula was the best thing in the whole world.

Kristin:  Yes.  Yeah, there’s often hesitancy, again, of that replacing of the partner’s role initially, but then after the birth, dads are our biggest fans.  Yeah, I’ve had so many fathers tell coworkers and friends to hire a doula and to never do it without a doula.  But you don’t know until you go through it.

Gail:  Exactly.  It is great for people to know as they’re going through pregnancy, as much as they can, about each of these people that could potentially be on their birth team, especially doulas, because I know – now, I don’t practice as a doula anymore.  There’s no conflict of interest with my students.  I’m not necessarily reeling them into another business venture.  But I am a huge advocate for doulas, obviously, because I was one.  That’s how I started my career.  I train doulas now.  So when they come to me, I think the benefit of that when we talk about doulas is that I can help them to figure out how to – I guess we can say interview doulas because you and I both know that there may be doulas who might take over a situation or might feel left out.  So I do think that it is very important during a pregnancy if you’re considering having a doula to have those conversations and decide, like, what the plan is when you’re going to have conversations and choose a doula potentially.

Kristin:  I totally agree.  It’s not only finding the right fit with the background that you’re looking for and their philosophy on supporting the client, but also making sure it’s a good personality fit and that you fully align in so many ways.  Similar to, again, finding the right nanny, for example.  Good resume, but a good personality and flexibility.

Gail:  That’s a great example because I think people can relate to that even more.  Like, doulas still are a little bit foreign, and certainly if you’ve never had a baby before and you’ve never had a doula, you’re not exactly sure how that works.  But the idea of having somebody come into your home and take care of your child and be living with you and your family, I guess that feels a little bit more familiar.

Kristin:  Yes, then choosing, you know, a pediatrician or choosing their midwife or doctor.  So Gail, what other tips do you have either from your Moms On Top group or The Ultimate Birth Experience book for parents as they’re preparing for their upcoming birth?

Gail:  I know this is going to seem sort of vague, but I do want to say first and foremost that – you know, I talk about this right away in the book, and I think about this all the time, that there is no one way to have a baby, and no two births, no two people, no two physiologies are alike.  We are so unique, and unfortunately, in at least the maternal health care system in which we live, and I don’t only mean here in the United States.  I do a pod on an app called Peanut where we just kind of talk live, and I have people on there from all over the world, basically, but mostly from England, Australia, Canada.  It’s the same thing.  So it’s not – it’s really the same situation.  We’re kind of subject to this idea that we have to do things based on a checklist, and that is how you have a safe experience.  So it doesn’t give us room to really investigate who we are, what’s important to us, what our values are, which I’m sure can overlap, but we’re unique.  We’re so different.  And the birth experience is not just – I say this.  It’s not just a medical event.  Often, it’s not a medical event at all.  But we engage in medical care through the process of pregnancy and having a baby.  And so we do get caught up in that idea that there really are no questions to ask and we just have to find the “best doctor” and just follow the rules and listen and don’t say anything.  And that cannot be further from the truth because we deserve to see ourselves as unique and we deserve to be treated individually, and so I would say that that’s like – saying “mission” sounds so dramatic, but it feels like a mission to me.  If I reflect, it’s not like I had this idea going into the birth work that this is what I was going to do.  Literally, when I first started this, it was all about – I just wanted to hold somebody’s hand through labor.  That was essentially it.  In living it, this is what has come from that, this idea that I really, really encourage everyone to advocate for seeing themselves as – well, first for seeing themselves as individuals, but advocate for that sort of treatment, that when you go in to have a conversation with your medical provider, that you expect them to really listen to you, to give you the time to be heard, to ask you questions about what it is that’s important to you.  And I know, because we do this; when we’re good doulas, we do that, right?  Don’t we ask people what’s important to them?

Kristin:  Absolutely.

Gail:  We don’t just walk in and just say, you know, this is how we practice, and this is what we’re going to do.  And there’s some really intimate, personal questions that have to be asked or have to be received.  You know, you don’t necessarily have to ask them.  But in any case, that would be my very first and most prominent source of encouragement to everybody that I talk to is just recognize that you are different than everybody else, and then to kind of piggyback on that, also keep your eyes open.  Be realistic.  Don’t assume that because you take a childbirth class and you hire a doula and you’re doing all these amazing things and you have a provider that’s so supportive, that you’re going to have your birth a certain way.  But instead, maybe, as I was saying before, make the goal that you are going to hone your skills as a consumer, that you’re going to build a sense of confidence, that you’re going to have such a different perspective on all of this once you recognize that really, evidence-based care is not the same as standard of care; that you get to ask questions; that you get to formulate this plan the way you would any other plan.

Kristin:  Like building a house, as you mentioned, or planning a wedding, yes.

Gail:  It is the same.  People will argue with me, and they’ll say, well, it’s not the same.  You’re just having a baby.  Like, you know, complications could happen, and you know, it’s much more – like, so what if you go someplace and it rains?  It’s really not a big deal.  But to me, when I hear that, my comeback, my answer to that, my feelings around that is that that’s even more the reason why you should be prepared and plan because, again, you’re not planning for a guarantee.  You’re planning, and in the process of planning, you become a partner with your medical caregivers.  And that is how you end up with the highest level of safety in a birth.  If you leave everything up to your medical care providers, who are not, can’t possibly know you the way you know you, and also might I just say – I know this may seem blasphemy for some people – but they are human beings.  They’re human beings with a skill set that I greatly respect, but no more than I respect anyone else’s skill set.  So let’s just kind of have that perspective and understand that that partnership, that true partnership where you’re doing a dance, you’re hearing their suggestions, you’re giving your thoughts, you’re asking for what you want, you’re receiving their feedback – that is how you have the healthiest and safest and best experience.

Kristin:  I agree 100%.  And certainly – you said having those conversations with your provider during pregnancy versus just showing up with a birth plan.  It’s really making sure that they understand your unique needs and how you’re looking at your experience for your birth, even if your provider’s not on call that day.  Having that conversation and seeing what they’re okay with and what they might have some concerns and questions about for any sort of desire that’s listed on there or something that they want to forego potentially as far as an intervention.

Gail:  So important not to just show up in your labor, and sometimes people do this when they hire doulas where they feel that, okay, I didn’t really prepare.  I’m not really sure, and I’m still very anxious and I haven’t had these conversations, but I have a doula.  And although I do think that it’s still lightyears better to have that doula than not to have that doula.  It is not going to give you an ideal situation because you have to learn how to advocate for yourself.

Kristin:  Exactly.  There’s no guarantee with a doula.  You’re still doing the work.  We can help you cross the bridge, but you have to actually cross it yourself.  We can get there halfway, and then it’s all up to you.

Gail:  And I get the feeling of intimidation around having these conversations, but I do want to say that there’s less intimidation, or the intimidation decreases once you do receive evidence-based information in a setting where you can ask questions and you can start to perceive things differently.  Then you feel – you know, you feel like you’re more able.  There’s more self-efficacy around that communication where you can go and you can have a conversation.  So the intimidation decreases in that respect, but that first initial time you do it, of course, it’s going to be a little bit scary because, you know, we feel that our doctors, our midwives, are authority figures.  But what I want to say is that you’re always using your intuition.  Yes, it is about the actual conversation you’re having and the subject of the conversation and the back and forth, but it’s also how you’re feeling in that conversation.  So if you go into your doctor or midwife and you’re having this conversation to start off and let’s say you’re discussing fetal monitoring and IVS and walking around in labor, and you come away from that interaction, like, shaken – if you feel like in that conversation you were needing to defend yourself and you were feeling even more intimidated, I’d like to say, I know that not everybody can just switch providers.  I know it’s not as easy for some as for others.  I do get that.  But if that happens to you, then you have to take some kind of action on that, whether it’s seeing somebody else in the practice or ideally, possibly starting to interview other practitioners.  Because what you should feel after that initial maybe somewhat intimidating conversation is you should feel a huge sense of relief.  You should feel that this person literally said to you, oh my gosh, of course.  It is not evidence-based to do that, so we’re not going to do that routinely, but we’ll be there to guide you, and we want to support you, and tell me more about why you want to do this and what it is and how we can support you.  Can you imagine if you had that kind of conversation?  You would rush into the next conversation at the next prenatal visit because you’d be so excited to have that partner supporting you with that demeanor.  So that’s what I want people to look for.

Kristin:  That’s so helpful.  So Gail, I would love to hear how our listeners can connect with you.  So let’s start with your Moms On Top group.  Fill us in a bit about the purpose for the group, how one can join, and we’ll go from there.

Gail:  Okay, so Moms On Top is really just the title of my business.  The business side of this is all my course offerings.  So as of right now, although I know that this will not be airing right away, so by the time it airs, there will be another option.  So I can say it now.  So right now, I have only been working with people individually.  Everything I do is either recorded online classes where we have at least one to four sessions after the class.  So there’s always interaction with me, no matter what.  Even if it’s a recorded online class.  Or if somebody lives locally to me, it can be an in person class, or I can do live online classes, as well.  What is rolling out now and will be available by the time listeners hear this is a group version of that where people will be able to take a course online – by the way, it’s a very informal sort of production because I want people to feel like they’re sitting there with me.  So it’s me teaching the class as if you were live with me, but unfortunately, you don’t get to ask questions in the moment.  However, I give tons of resources, and as I said, every single one of my students always has interaction with me personally.  So this new rollout is going to be that sort of course where everything is recorded.  You get all kinds of things.  I will not list, but you get all kinds of things that go with it.  But then we will meet as a group four times throughout the course, which I love because that group interaction is magical.  So there is that.  That’s really – the umbrella of Moms On Top includes all of that.  I am also rolling out a postpartum group, which is coming up, and hopefully we can update everybody when that happens.  And then I do so many things for free.  Like, I give free classes every few weeks.  People can find me on Instagram.  So it’s just my name, @gailjanicola.  So I’m either announcing what I’m doing there; it’s in my bio, or in stories.  And if people want to be on my email list, I’m always giving updates and all kinds of really valuable information so they can just request.  They can do that by contacting me on the Moms On Top site.  Or they can DM me on Instagram.  I would say those are the best ways of reaching me.

Kristin:  Great.  And then how can our listeners order The Ultimate Birth Experience book?

Gail:  So it is on Amazon.  If you want it nicely wrapped with a note and possibly a signed copy, which I don’t charge anything for, of course, then you can order it on my website.

Kristin:  Wonderful.  And I’m so excited about your postpartum group.  It’s very needed.  There are a lot of pregnancy support groups, but not enough in the postnatal phase.

Gail:  Yeah.  And although I did not coin the phrase mommy mentor – that was a name that was given to me, and I have to say in the beginning, for whatever reason, I don’t know why, I resisted it.  But it’s truly – I feel like my purpose because I have no judgment, and I am – I’ve made mothering my life, so for me, it is all about listening and hearing and helping and part of this group will be bringing in the experts.  The pelvic floor therapists and the mental health counselors and the lactation consultants.  So I just want to make this a tribe, and I do know how needed it is.  So I’m here to mentor if that is something that somebody wants.

Kristin:  I think it’s a perfect description for you as a blend of both a coach and a doula.  It’s perfect.

Gail:  Thank you, Kristin.

Kristin:  Well, it was so wonderful to connect with you, Gail.  I appreciate your time, and I hope you have a great day.

Gail:  Thank you so much!

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

 

Gold Coast client Deb Kalsbeek shares her story of pregnancy after loss with Kristin.  Deb also gives tips on how to best support grieving families.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Hello, hello!  This is Kristin with Ask the Doulas, and I’m joined today by Deb Kalsbeek.  And Deb is a multiple entrepreneur, a Gold Coast client, and the founder of AstirFreya.  Welcome, Deb!

Deb:  Thank you so much for having me!

Kristin:  So happy to have you here.  So would love for you to share a bit about your story and why you created AstirFreya.

Deb:  So a little bit about my story is I have two daughters now, but I have been pregnant five times.  I have had a first trimester loss, a second trimester loss, and then my – the stillbirth of my daughter in the third trimester, which is kind of where I started AstirFreya.  I realized after all of my losses how those around me, they wanted to help, and they felt helpless.  On my side, you know, you kind of want the help, but you don’t really know what that is.  You just want to feel okay, even though nothing feels okay.  And so AstirFreya was created out of those feelings.  So we send care kits to mothers who recently experienced loss, and we also share education on how to help mom through that season and help the loved ones, giving them ideas how they can help through all of that.

Kristin:  It’s so needed.  As you said, we don’t really know how to help our loved ones, and so – and I know that you did utilize some bereavement doula support through us with your first, with Freya.

Deb:  Yes, and that was so helpful.  I would suggest for anyone to do that.

Kristin:  And can you talk a bit about, for our listeners who don’t know, what a bereavement doula is?  A bit about how your guide helped you through that process.

Deb:  So I felt totally lost even going into it because I had no idea what a bereavement doula was.  I was just kind of – I felt grasping at straws at that point, of I want help, and I don’t know what that looks like.  And so I got connected with a bereavement doula, actually from you, and being able to talk to her about my story, and it was someone who – she basically just said, I understand, and was very loving and caring and let me share my story, like, all of it, and she helped go through my health history and my other losses.  We talked about things that I can do to help me move forward when it comes to my health, things to talk to my doctor about, things to even talk to my therapist about.  Like, she was definitely there to help me kind of create a game plan, and how are we going to be okay.  How are we going to come out stronger after this?  And then also just gave me that space to really talk about my daughters.  Because all five – all five of my pregnancies, I found out, were daughters.

Kristin:  Yeah, that’s wild.  All girls.  So as far as AstirFreya’s mission, you help mothers throughout pregnancy after all types of loss.  So miscarriage, for example, stillbirth, and infant loss.  And their journeys may be much different with a stillbirth versus an infant loss?

Deb:  Yeah.  I have personally experienced, you know, that first, second, and third trimester loss, and every single one of them were completely different experiences.  Completely different emotions.  The one emotion that was always the same is that feeling of loss and sadness.  So we try to help you through each of those seasons, and it’s okay if you have all of the emotions.  All of the emotions are okay, and we do try to share stories from other mothers who have gone through each of those phases, even into the infant loss.  We have them share their stories so that you don’t feel so alone.  And then we do give the moms who share their stories the opportunity that if you want to be contacted by someone else who has a loss so that you can help them through that, they are able to do that as well.

Kristin:  There are so few loss support groups, especially during the pandemic, so it’s wonderful that not only are these mothers sharing their stories, but they’re also willing to be there for other mothers who are going through loss.  So Deb, you recently had a rainbow baby.  Would you like to share a bit about your experience having gone through loss and going through pregnancy after loss?

Deb:  Yeah.  Going on with all the emotions, having my rainbow baby was all the emotions.  Just the timing of everything.  So I ended up delivering my rainbow baby.  Her name is Amelia.  And I delivered her within one year and three days of my daughter’s memorial from the one who passed away.  Like, it was almost the exact date.  Actually, my induction date was the exact date that my daughter – that we did her memorial.  So it was like, oh, my goodness.  I don’t know how I feel about this, like being her one year – what would have been one-year birthday, to now I’m delivering this new baby.  Feels like a total whirlwind because you’re still postpartum, and then, oh, hey, you’re pregnant.  So backing up a little bit, I got pregnant two months after my daughter Freya had passed away.  She was stillbirth.  And at first, I just automatically was like, I cannot get attached to this pregnancy.  Like, I don’t get to keep it.  That’s what I kept feeling when I got pregnant was, everyone else gets to keep their babies.  I don’t get to keep mine.  So that was something I had to work through with my therapist and her helping me just celebrate every single day that, you know what, you made it one more day, and I got to be the mother of this baby one more day.  And it was just one day at a time, and that’s what we were going to focus on is celebrating that life, that one day.  And I also had a really great medical team that listened when I said, you know, if something didn’t feel right or if I even just needed some reassurance.  They would let me come in and hear the heartbeat, and it was the most magical sound in the world.  I think that I was still scared of losing her up until the point that she was born.  Like, I kept thinking, we’re going to get to that 20-week ultrasound, and I’m going to be told everything’s okay, and I’m going to be all right from there.  And it was never that moment of, I feel okay.  It was always this feeling of, I don’t get to keep her, and I don’t know when that’s going to be.  And I think that that’s okay because I think it’s very natural and normal to feel that fear, especially so close after loss and after having, you know, three losses.  But I am very thankful that now I have my Ame girl.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin: And you had a birth doula to support you, and part of our role is to support emotionally.  So you also had that connection to be able to go to if you’re feeling down or if you’re not sure how to, you know, celebrate during your grieving process.  So there’s so many mixed emotions, and we hold that space without judgment.

Deb:  Having a doula was a huge game changer.  I knew that when I was pregnant with Freya that I wanted to have a doula, but then we started getting abnormal results back from her pregnancy, and so I just kind of held off because I didn’t know what was going to happen at that point.  So going into my pregnancy with Amelia, I knew for sure.  I’m like, I’m getting a doula this time.  Like, they were so helpful through my pregnancy with Freya and then also losing her, so a bereavement doula, and now going into a new pregnancy, I was like, I need that support.  Because there is something different about doulas.  Like, y’all’s heart – you understand pregnancy.  You are in it.  The most compassionate people ever.  So I loved having my doula through the whole pregnancy, especially to help talk about some of those fears, talk about some things that, is this normal in pregnancy?  Is this feeling normal?  Talking about a game plan, and also being able to get excited about her birth.  So my doula sat down with me, and we talked about my daughter’s birth and what are some of the things that I want to happen around that.  What type of support do I want?  And it helped to kind of dream it after losses.  It made it feel more real.  And then on the day of, I somehow – I am all for epidurals, personally.  I somehow was able to make it to a 7 without getting an epidural yet because of my doula support.  She kept reminding me, she was like, okay, shoulders down, just breathe.  And it was the hardest, because even now, I still as I’m nursing, I have to remind myself, okay, relax the shoulders, and then I think of my doula telling me through labor, relax the shoulders.

Kristin:  Yes.  Wherever our clients hold their tension – some people it’s their jaw or forehead, but we’re there again to support and coach them through this big transition and the feelings that rise up.  So I’m so thankful that you shared that experience.  So Deb, as our listeners who may be, you know, expecting a rainbow baby are hearing your story, do you have any tips for them on managing this pregnancy and celebrating the wins?

Deb:  So my daughter, who is now seven, she has been through two of my losses with me, and the way that she helped me celebrate each day of our rainbow pregnancy was different every single day.  So I let her help me pick out what we were going to do that day to celebrate.  One day, we literally had balloons around the house, and that’s how we were going to celebrate.  Other times, it was something relaxing, so, like, I went in and got a massage.  You know, something to nourish my body because I knew that I needed to take care of myself, mentally, body, all of it.  So definitely be gentle with yourself.  Let yourself feel all the emotions.  Talk to a therapist.  Have a good doctor team, like medical team, and that included for me my doula.  Really, it’s allowing yourself to celebrate day after day after day and asking for what you need.  Personally, I needed a lot of reassurance, more than I would like to admit, but having the reassurance really helped through this rainbow pregnancy.  And even after.  Like, after she was here, it was more emotions; different emotions than what I expected, because then I also felt guilt, which is a whole other thing.  I felt guilt for having a new baby, where it’s like, it hasn’t even been a year, and I’m already holding this new life, and it doesn’t mean that she replaces my Freya that I lost.  So there was – you know, being sleep-deprived, just giving birth, and now I’m feeling guilt.  So I did talk to my doula through that, too, like, all the new emotions of bringing baby home after a loss.

Kristin:  And having a therapist to support, as well, is key.  So I’m so glad that you invested in therapy during this time.  As you had mentioned early in our conversation, Deb, you talked about people wanting to help and not knowing the best thing to do to support a friend or family member who’s grieving from loss.  What are your tips?  As you said, some of that emotional support, affirmations, or some acts of service, physical support – how would you best recommend that our listeners offer the support that’s needed in that moment?

Deb:  So I have experienced now the other side of being the friend that wants to help after a loss, whereas before this close person had their loss, I was like, I’m the one who always has this.  Like, I’m never on the other side.  So I can now say also from experience how helpless you do feel because you want to help your loved one.  You just want to help in some way.  And sometimes you say and do things that you mean to be helpful, and they’re not exactly as helpful as what you mean them to be.  So I have talked to a lot of moms who have experienced loss and kind of pooled their answers of, well, what do you feel like you needed in that time, and we kind of came up with a few things that we now have on the front page of AstirFreya to help the loved ones through this with their loved one who just experienced a loss.  So some of the things are sending a gift card.  Don’t just show up.  Like, just send it through email.  If you do make them a meal, don’t ask them a lot of questions.  If you don’t already know what they like to eat, just do the gift card.  A lot of the parents of loss have said don’t send flowers because it’s just something to take care of and a reminder that things die.  The biggest one is talk to me about my baby.  Don’t act like it just didn’t happen because it’s very real for us.  And don’t just, like, you know, three months in, like, oh, everything is fine now.  You’ve had time to grieve.  Everything is fine now.  No, actually, I am one year and five months out, and I still have random days where it is a completely normal day, and something will remind me of my daughter who passed, and it just, like, kicks you in the gut.  And you grieve for a while.  Like, that grief, I think you carry it with you.  It becomes part of your new normal, and you learn how to cope with it.  But still, talk to me about my baby.

Kristin:  So how can our listeners get involved in AstirFreya?  Tell us more about the important work that you’re doing, not only with resources, but some of the physical items that they can order and then of course your care gifts to mom.

Deb:  So we specially curated these care kits for mothers who recently experienced loss.  These care kits have – they vary based on the month, but they have, like, a bath bomb in there, a bracelet that has a rainbow on it, because rainbows signify that hope after loss.  And that doesn’t mean another baby for everyone.  The rainbow is to signify being able to find that joy again after your loss.  So there’s a rainbow bracelet in there, some different care items for mom, and like I said, it changes every single month, and we try to make sure that they’re all small businesses that we are purchasing these items from.  We do have some businesses that will occasionally donate items so that we’re able to use those at our discretion to kind of suit it to whatever the mom needs.  We have a shop that has, like, a newborn blanket for your rainbow baby and some t‑shirts.  We have those bracelets for purchase, as well.  We have lots of rainbow-related items that you’re able to purchase, and whatever is made off of those goes into a fund to be able to fund those care kits so that we can send those out to moms.  And so that is how we’re able to afford these care kits is through the shop.

Kristin:  You can also, like, sponsor kits and give donations, so there are other ways besides buying items from the shop, correct?

Deb:  Yes, so we do have a donation spot as well, so you’re able to donate a kit to a mom.  With that one, you just click the donate page, and you put in your address, and then we know not to send that to you, but to send that out to a mom who is in need.

Kristin:  So what resources do you suggest that moms who are struggling with, again, just having had a miscarriage or stillbirth or infant loss – where do they go in their own community?  I know that AstirFreya, of course, you can serve anyone in the US and mail kits out all over, but what other resources have you found in your research that would be very helpful to moms?

Deb:  I haven’t found any local groups yet.  There is one online.  It’s called Push for Pregnancy, and they specifically work with moms who have experienced stillbirth.  I highly suggest finding a therapist that you can connect with.  Talk to a bereavement doula.  That was huge.  And then also find a medical team that is willing to listen to you, one that is a good fit.

Kristin:  Yeah, and that may mean switching from your previous physician if it wasn’t a good fit the first time and interviewing them and making sure that they’re on board, again, with your plan and whatever it takes to reassure you.  As you mentioned, having additional appointments if needed.

Deb:  Yeah.  Yeah, absolutely.

Kristin:  Well, thank you so much for sharing your story, Deb, and all of the work that you’re doing to make such a big impact for moms everywhere.  We really appreciate it.

Deb:  Thank you so much for having me and allowing me to kind of share my story a little and hopefully be able to help other moms who have experienced similar or are going through this season.

Kristin:  Would you fill us in on all of the different social media channels that AstirFreya is found on?  I know you mentioned your website.

Deb:  Yep, and then Instagram and Facebook are the same, AstirFreya.

Kristin:  Wonderful.  Thank you, Deb!

Deb:  Thank you so much!

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden. 

Kristin & Catherine, author of Happy with Baby, discuss the challenges of moving from partner to parent and how that can throw you for a loop.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Hello, this is Kristin with Ask the Doulas, and I’m joined today by Catherine O’Brien.  Catherine is the founder of Happy with Baby.  She is a mom of two, and has a master’s is psychology and is also a licensed marriage and family therapist.  Welcome, Catherine!

Catherine:  Thank you, Kristin, for having me!  I’m happy to be here with you.

Kristin:  You have a lot going on, especially with your new book.  So how do you balance everything as a mom, author, therapist, and having so many different online programs and so on?

Catherine:  Yeah, that’s a good question.  Very carefully, and some times, some days, are better than others.  And I think the number one thing that I’ve learned over the years is I constantly have to check in with myself.  I do a lot of things and I like to do a lot of things, and there are times where the balance gets shifted, and then I’m overwhelmed, burned out.  It’s been a constant reevaluation, and I think it wasn’t until having kids where I’m finally like, you can’t afford to burn yourself out.  You can’t afford to, like, not be able to lay in bed all weekend because you’re so exhausted from a crazy week at work or whatever it is.

Kristin:  Exactly.  Our kids need us, so there’s no off time.

Catherine:  Right, right.

Kristin:  So I would love to really get into that family dynamic as it changes from being a couple to introducing that first child.  Can you speak to the changes that having that first baby brings to the relationship?

Catherine:  Yeah.  I think – well, there’s a lot of changes, and I know personally for us, you know, we had a great relationship and liked to spend time together and do all these things, and then baby arrived.  He had a lot of needs, and we were learning a lot of new things, and it became stressful.  Just even how we communicated because before kids, like, I think we just kind of communicated or knew what the other person was going to do or whatever, but now there were so many new tasks and chores and things to do that it was, like, needing to communicate more, but we still weren’t communicating at the level that we needed.  Does that make sense?

Kristin:  Yes, and even as a therapist, it still challenges you to communicate your needs?

Catherine:  Oh, yes.  And I think that was the most – I was finding it really hard and I was getting really frustrated with him, and then I was, like, frustrated at myself because I’m like, how am I not able to do this?  Like, this is what I help other people do.  Why am I struggling?  And we had never had those – that level of struggle before, so it became really frustrating.  So I was, like, learning how to – reevaluating how we communicated with each other, and then plus, like, managing all the household chores and stuff, and how we were managing – yeah.

Kristin:  And it’s so important to have these discussions during pregnancy versus waiting until baby arrives and figuring it out.  Again, like, looking at dividing up household responsibilities.  We have an online course called Becoming A Mother, and we talk a lot about budgeting and priorities like you would when you’re building a home or planning a wedding.  This is another major life occurrence and really figuring out, is a housekeeper a priority or meal delivery service.  Like, really, what is essential that you could outsource?  What can your partner or husband take over?  What are you able to do?  But of course, there is that healing phase, regardless of how a woman births, where you really can’t be doing much the first six to nine weeks.

Catherine:  Right, and we shouldn’t.  Like, we should – ideally, I think in the best of worlds, we would get that bonding time where we wouldn’t have to do those things, and we could bond with our baby and our partner and have other supports.  And that’s just not – you know, unfortunately, it’s not how it is.  And so it’s like, well, where do you find those little ways to make things easier, like you said, like being able to outsource food delivery or those types of things to make life easier, if even just for a short period of time.  That’s what we didn’t have really set up for us, and so it was really hard trying to do it all, and we would find ourselves – like, I remember, like, 9:00 at night, trying to eat dinner, because we always ate dinner together, and so we were, like, trying to do that, and then it was like, you know, I’m hangry.  How are we putting stuff together?  It was really hard, and then we’re like, okay, we’ve got it.  I remember us looking at each other one day.  It was like, we were trying to eat and the baby was crying.  You know, like, he wasn’t sleeping and trying to take care of him and eat together, and we’re like, okay, we’ve got to do something else because this isn’t sustainable, eating at 9:00 at night.

Kristin:  Definitely not.

Catherine:  No.  So figuring out how to do that.  And then also you have the household management stuff, but then also how do you continue to have that connection with each other and the intimacy, and how are we supporting each other, because we both need it during this time and forever, really.

Kristin:  Right.  As a couple first and then seeing each other as parents, you know, secondly.  And I feel like there are so many stressors with families and breakdowns with communication and divorces happen in those early years, so really keeping that communication, keeping the focus and the romance alive, even if it’s just, like you said, trying to eat dinner together when baby’s sleeping, or if you have other children, when they’re sleeping.  Watching a movie or just checking in.  And I know for myself, when my husband went back to work right away and I was alone all day, right when he got home, I wanted to talk to an adult human.  So I’m, like, expecting so much, and he needed to decompress from work, so we had to work that out, as well.

Catherine:  Yeah.  Yeah, because there is that decompression time from – we teach a course, my husband and I teach a course together, too, and we call it, like, that second shift.  Like, the parent that was outside the home is coming home, and now it’s like, oh, now it’s time for your second shift.  Like, what do you need and how much time, and what does that look like?  And I think it’s, like, talking about it.  And it’s not even that you need those things every single day, but having those little check-in breaks, those moments for yourselves.  I think there’s three questions that I encourage all my clients and couples that I work with to talk about, and the first one is, like, what are you doing to take care and reconnect with yourself?  What do you need?  And we need to look at that.  And the second question is, what are you doing to support and connect with your partner?  And the third question is, what will you do to, like, nurture and bond and connect with your child?  And they’re in that order for a reason, and the reason is, I feel like that first one, is we have to be taking care of ourselves in order to, like, sustainably do the other two long-term.  If we’re not putting into ourselves – like, you asked me that question at the beginning of how do I balance it all.  It’s like, yeah, I need to constantly check in and make sure that I’m taking care of myself because I can’t continue to do – have a good relationship with my partner and be the kind of parent that I want to be and do my job, for that matter, if I’m not making sure that I’m taking care of my own needs.  And then the second question is, we can make sure that we’re bonding and connecting with our partner.  We can be better parents when we’re better partners, too, right?  Because we need each other.  It makes it easier when we can rely on each other and know what each other needs but also when I’m feeling connected and supported by my partner, I feel like everything is easier for me, you know, because he’s there.

Kristin:  You’re on the same team.

Catherine:  And he wants to be there with me, if I’m not, like, cranky and angry at him or whatever.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  And then do you find as a therapist that it can be challenging for partners to lose the time and intention they got with their partner when a newborn and potentially other children are really demanding a lot of their time and attention?  Is there some of that?

Catherine:  Yeah.  I mean, I think that’s one of the biggest challenges that I talk with the couples.  Sometimes one partner is wanting more or feeling like they need more or being kind of left out.  One partner feels more connected focusing on the baby, and the other partner is like, I don’t even know what I want to do.  And that’s one of the reasons I added that third question.  You both need to be doing things that are nurturing and bonding with your child.  One parent doesn’t have to do it all.  That was eye-opening for me too, and not that I felt like I had to do it all; my husband was – fortunately, he was super supportive and hands-on, but then there were times when I’m like, well, this is how I’m doing it, so I want you to do it exactly how I do it.  And it was like, no, no, he’s going to do – he’s going to figure it out on his own.  You know, we all have our learning curve, what we’re doing with our children and what we’re comfortable with, and not all of us are teeny tiny baby – you know, like, that’s not our phase.  We like them a little bit easier for us and we feel better about what we’re doing when we’re getting a little feedback and they’re smiling at us and we can play with them more.  Like, that seems to be easier.  But in the meantime, we still need to be doing things to help and support each other like changing the diapers, rocking them to sleep, or whatever that looks like for your family.  But that you’re both doing it and letting each other do it and not feeling like, well, I have to do it because I’m the only one that can, or it’s easier when I do it.  The baby settles down faster.  It’s like, well, you know, give your partner a chance too, I think, within reason, because they need that time on their side to increase the bonding for them, as well.

Kristin:  Right, and women who are exclusively breastfeeding can certainly use the extra sleep time if their partner can get baby back to sleep, change the diaper, burp the baby.  Then you have that extra time, and they also get that one on one time with the baby, so it’s a win-win.

Catherine:  Right, exactly.  No, I know, I realize, like – and then it was, like, my favorite things because our kids would wake up in the middle of the night.  If I got up with them, it was like all of a sudden, they’re hungry and they wanted to eat, it seems like.  And then I realized that if my husband does, he can do a quick diaper change and come back to sleep.  They’re not smelling milk or whatever that they’ve decided that now they need a snack or something.  So it’s like, well, I think you should actually get up with them because they go right back to sleep, and I’m up for, like, an hour, you know, doing a feeding and all of that.  And he just looks at me like, okay.  And not all the time, but definitely – we had to figure out how to work those things out, and again, those were conversations because it’s not like one week or one day this scenario can work, but then as they age and they go through different growth spurts, you need to constantly be talking about and figuring out how are you supporting each other, because it’s rough.  Like, not getting enough sleep is torturous.

Kristin:  Exactly, and it can lead to perinatal mood disorders.  I mean, if you’re sleep is just – if you’re not getting caught up, it is very stressful.  So as far as your course, you teach the Bringing Home Baby program.  Now, is that the one you teach with your husband?

Catherine:  I’ve done the Bringing Home Baby program, and then prior to that, we had kind of developed our own program, and so I incorporate some of the aspects of it.  We have our own course: Mine, Yours, Ours, Relationship Survival Guide to Baby’s First Year.  It’s a shorter course, and we’ve been teaching that for over eleven years now.  I think – yeah, this is going into our twelfth year.  Our son is turning 13 soon, which I’m saying that and I’m like, is that really true?

Kristin:  Right?  How can that be?

Catherine:  As he was standing next to me yesterday and he’s all, Mom, look how much taller I am than you, and I’m like, oh my gosh, how are you already so huge?  We just brought him home.  But anyway –

Kristin:  I can relate completely.

Catherine:  So as they say, it goes by so fast, and I think especially when you’re in it, in those early days, it feels like so long, and especially when you’re so exhausted, but now I look back, and I’m like, oh, my gosh, it does.  It flies by.

Kristin:  Yes.  It’s important to cherish that time, even though it can feel like it drags out.

Catherine:  Yeah.

Kristin:  It goes by quickly.  So your book is Happy with Baby, an extension, then of all of the work that you’ve been doing in this space?  What really led you to take the time and energy to put a book out into the world?

Catherine:  Yeah, so like I said, we’ve been teaching this course forever, and the course was – it was basically based upon a collection of, like, thoughts that I wish I would have known.  Like, you know, I was nervous when I had our son, our first child, and when I was, like, going through it, I was like, oh, I wish I would have known that.  Like, why did no one warn me, or if they warned me, it wasn’t loud enough.  Just an accumulation of ideas that I wish I would have known, and I was like, how do I share these?  And then listening, going to different moms’ groups or different scenarios and stuff like that, and I was hearing other people talk, and I’m like, oh, so I’m – we’re definitely not alone, and in some circumstances, people were struggling in ways that we weren’t even struggling, but this new parenthood journey is not for the faint of heart.  Like, this is hard, and there needs to be more support out there.  And so, you know, we put this course together based on that because we were given this opportunity, got given an opportunity to teach a class, and I was like, I have the perfect idea for new parents, and I was fortunate my husband agreed to join me to do it just so that you could get, like, both parents’ perspective.  And then kind of as that went along, we got more stories and heard more things, and I was like, I think someone mentioned to me about writing a book, and I was like, yeah, I guess that would be easier than, like, trying to go around the world and do the workshop.  No, like, I do have dreams of doing that.  So we started like kind of putting the book together and kind of expanding what we teach in the workshop and everything, and that’s just kind of – I feel like I was writing that book for years.  It was the biggest, the longest pregnancy ever, trying to birth this book.  So yeah, that’s where that came from.

Kristin:  And how can our listeners and doula clients find your book?

Catherine:  It’s on Amazon and anywhere books are sold online, you can find it.  It’s Happy with Baby: Essential Relationship Advice when Partners Become Parents.  And you can go to my website, and there’s a link on there you can click on to make it easy for you.

Kristin:  And Catherine, you have some online groups as well that parents can join?  Fill us in on how else they can get engaged with you.

Catherine:  Yeah.  So I have been doing for over 12 years now like a meet-up group locally here in Sacramento, and it’s kind of been a lot of different renditions, and when the pandemic started – well, I can’t stop doing the group.  Parents need support more than ever.  And so I transitioned it to an online Zoom group, and what I didn’t realize is, because I host it through Meetup.com, is that when you click on that it is now virtual, it goes out to the world.  So the benefit is that people from all over the world have joined us now.  Like, we’ve had people in Ukraine and Canada.  So I do that once a month currently, and yeah, it’s open to anyone and everyone.  Typically I have pregnant and newly postpartum parents, but then it’s also – you know, sometimes I get parents with older kids, too.  So it’s just, like, support for parents – the early stages and a little bit beyond, as well.  So just needing to, I think, realize that we’re not in this alone, and I think the beauty of having it go out to the world is, like, parenting issues aren’t different in another country.  Like, there’s a lot of similarities.  There are differences, but a lot of the same concerns and issues are universal.  So it’s just been – I guess it’s one of the things I’ve enjoyed the most is just getting to connect with more people around the world.

Kristin:  Yeah, it can be so isolating during what seems like never-ending pandemics, so it’s great that there’s this virtual support as well as class options.  Is most of your therapy, then, telehealth, or how are you seeing one on one clients?

Catherine:  Yeah, so I am still doing the majority of telehealth appointments, so I can meet with clients all through California, too, so that’s been nice to open it up, as well.  Some areas don’t have as much – as many support systems in place, so I think that has been one of the good things, if there are good things about the pandemic, is that I’ve seen a greater source of online support out there for moms and parents and stuff like that because we definitely need it during this time.

Kristin: Exactly.  So any final tips for our listeners, Catherine?

Catherine:  Any final tips?  That’s a good question.  I think one of the things I’ll hear from parents is, like, just feeling like, oh, I’m not doing it.  There’s more I could be doing, or being hard on ourselves, and I think it’s like, you know, you’re the most perfect parent for your child, and I think if you continue to make sure that you are taking care of yourself, right, so that you can take care of your relationship and take care of your children, then that is the most important thing that you can do for your family.

Kristin:  Love it.  Any tips for partners who are listening?

Catherine:  Talk to your partner.  Like, have check-ins!  Check in with each other and see how you’re both doing and see what you can do to support each other, but then also, where can you find a little moment during the day or during the week with each other that isn’t distracted by other things.  Even if it’s, like, 10, 15 minutes and you’re doing that every day, those moments add up over the week and the month and stuff.  But make sure that you’re taking those times to really check in with each other.

Kristin:  So true.  Thank you!  It was so lovely to speak with you, and we will share your resources with not only our doula clients but also our Becoming students.  So it was wonderful to meet you, Catherine!

Catherine:  It was so nice meeting you, too, Kristin!  Thank you so much!

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

 

Kristin and Deb discuss how to prepare for birth when working through fear.  Deb is the director of the Prenatal Yoga Center.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Hello, hello.  This is Kristin, and I’m co-host of Ask the Doulas and owner of Gold Coast Doulas, and I’m joined today by Deb Flashenberg.  Deb is the director of the Prenatal Yoga Center and a prenatal and postnatal creator of teacher training as well as private childbirth education, and you also are the host of the podcast, Yoga Birth Babies.  Welcome, Deb!

Deb:  Thank you so much.  Thanks for having me.

Kristin:  So happy to have you hear.  So I would love to hear a bit more about your background, since you’re a doula and have so many different trainings and credits as a yoga instructor.

Deb:  Yeah, I wear a lot of hats.

Kristin:  It seems like it!  Share more about your background with us.

Deb:  Sure.  Well, I started as a new school theater performer many, many years ago.  Many, many years ago.  And as I continued in that path, I started to get more into yoga, and I was actually a Bikram yoga teacher for a hot second.  And that didn’t really sit with me because if anyone knows anything about the Bikram background, it’s a very strict script, and it doesn’t allow you to look at the individual and serve them.  And as a doula, you know, like, that’s what we do!

Kristin:  Exactly!

Deb:  And so it didn’t really fit.  So I was talking to some people, and they mentioned prenatal yoga.  And I thought, huh.  That’s interesting.  That really is catering to a very specific person and their needs.  So I became a prenatal yoga teacher well before I had kids.  And then I still felt like there was a disconnect between just teaching yoga modifications and what was happening in the labor and delivery space.  And so one of my students was doing her fellowship at one of the hospitals in New York, and she asked me if I wanted to see some births.  I was, like, 28 at the time.  None of my friends in New York City were having kids.  And what I also realized – this was probably totally illegal because she dressed me up in scrubs and told everyone I was a med student.  I know!  And I went into places that I really – in hindsight, I’m like, wow, that was really inappropriate.  I helped deliver a placenta.  Totally inappropriate.  I scrubbed in for a C-section.  I didn’t last very long.  And I just saw a lot of birth, and something that really struck me as watching one birth in particular, that the birthing parent was just really not – it seemed like she was not taken into consideration.  It was really all about the baby, and the baby came out and everyone left.  It was a bit of high stress because it was a vacuum extraction, and there was a lot going on.  Then for whatever reason, I was left in the room with the baby and the nurse typing on the computer and the parents kind of shell shocked, and no one was attending to them.  And that was a turning point where I thought, hmm, I need to make sure that what I teach as yoga isn’t just modifications, but it’s really giving insight and preparation for the birthing experience and all the different ways it can go.  So I became a doula.  And then I became a Lamaze teacher, and because I love trainings, I continued to deepen my yoga training, and I did pelvic floor yoga teacher training.  And I’m right now doing – I don’t remember the exact name of it, but it’s with a doctor of physical therapy about the pregnant and postpartum body.  And I’m also doing the Spinning Babies parent educator.  So I just feel like the more I can learn, the more I can help my students.  And then of course I had my own kids along the way.  But it’s been quite the path of just going from, huh, I think I’ll teach pregnant folks to becoming a strong advocate for people having the birth that supports them and finding their team and attending to the mental and physical aspects of preparation for birth.

Kristin:  And you have quite the studio there in New York.  You have a wide range of instructor and options, and of course, you branched out and launched a podcast.

Deb:  Yeah.  It’s amazing.  It’s a lot of work.  But I feel really blessed that I get to have these opportunities, especially the podcast.  What I find amazing is I’ve reached out to some of the really big names in the birth world, and they said yes.  And they would speak to me, and I felt – I mean, you’re a podcast host.  You know how much we can learn from those we speak with, and I’m also a geek for studying, and I love prepping for those talks.  So it’s been a huge education.

Kristin:  That’s wonderful, yes.  And it’s such a great service to be able to offer women in pregnancy and postpartum to be able to have these experts on, and then they know more about their options because otherwise – you know, if you don’t know about your options, you have none.  So yeah, I love that.  So Deb, our topic today is centered around addressing fears in pregnancy and birth.  So obviously, as a doula, we work with fears and with your childbirth education background and in prenatal yoga, certainly, I’d love to hear your thoughts on how you’re able to center and reduce the stress during pregnancy.

Deb:  Well, I think a lot of it comes back to – it’s many things.  So let me back up about why I think the fear – and I love that we’re talking about this.  It’s so important.  So on the fifth birth I did, I remember the client was really – she had a lot of pressure on herself for her birth, and I’m sure as a doula you’ve seen this.  It was an older parent, and this was kind of like her one shot.  And she put a lot of pressure on what she wanted this birth to look like.  And it was the exact opposite, as I’m as a doula you’ve seen, and it was the first time that I’ve had one of those births that are just hours and hours and hours and hours, and it just was taking forever.  Then she ended up having a Cesarean, which was the exact opposite of what she wanted.  She wanted to be in the birth center, and she wanted totally unmedicated, and she had some pretty strong visions.  And a year later, she calls me in to have a meeting, and I was terrified.  I’m like, oh, my God, what, is she going to sue me?  I know it was the wrong – like, not wrong, but not the birth she wanted.  And she shared with me that throughout that year, she has been processing her birth, and what she realized during her birth was that she was so afraid of crossing that threshold to parenthood.  Emotionally, she was trying to not let that birth happen.  She was trying to hold that baby in because she was so afraid of losing what she had in her life and not ready for the responsibility.  And that was huge.

Kristin:  It is huge, and I always tell my clients, birth is as mental as it is physical.  So right there – I mean, it’s hard to know right in the moment that her mind was holding her back, and it wasn’t anything to do with her body, but some women think their bodies fail them when really it can be the mental aspect.

Deb:  Yeah.  So it was the fifth birth I had done at that point.  I didn’t have that knowledge.  I’ll be totally honest, I didn’t have that knowledge.  I mean, the baby was posterior, too, so I was attending to that, and I was talking to a mentor about that on the phone during this.  But after that birth, it really highlighted to me about addressing fear during pregnancy, and it became one of the questions I would talk to my doula clients during our prenatals.  I’d say, like, you don’t have to tell me what your fear is.  You’re welcome to so I can help support that, but I’d invite you to sit with what fears do you have surrounding this experience.  And what always concerns me is “no fears, I’m totally ready.”  And I’d say let’s dig a little bit deeper.  Because I feel like any massive change, even if it’s something you desperately want – we don’t know how the birth is going to unfold.  We don’t know what it’s going to be like on the other side.  And there often is some anxiety and fear.  So I open that up to my students, just inviting them to sit with that, and then having that conversation with their partner or their birth team about what came up.  So after doing that as part of my doula practice, it really did shine a light sometimes on – as people were preparing in our prenatals, and sometimes people would tell me what their fears were, and sometimes they would say, “I’m not ready to share it, but I’ll have a word, a safety word, that if I’m feeling this, I want you to know that I’m having these feelings.  I’m fearful, and that I need a reminder that I’ll be okay, or I need my partner to step in.”  I found that when we can address it and highlight it, it helped pass those speed bumps, per se.

Kristin:  Yes.  That’s beautiful.  And partners can also have fears that can affect labor.  I teach a comfort measures for labor class, and we get into communication and the partner’s spots on birth, as well as the birthing person, and it is interesting because until that moment, many couples hadn’t had that conversation.  So if a partner is afraid to see any discomfort and is suggesting things the birthing person may not want, that can also come up.

Deb:  Yeah, I’ve seen that where – I have one – this actually was a good friend of mine, and I know the couple outside of the birth world.  And so it was really interesting seeing that.  I know how their dynamic is, and I was watching the father be very uncomfortable with how his wife was doing, my friend, and she was very clear.  She’s like, I know I can do this.  I want an unmedicated birth.  And he kept saying, like, “Are you sure you don’t want the epidural?  I think you’ll be more comfortable.”  And it was hard to step in and try to help him say, we need to trust her, because he’s like, “Are you sure?  Are you sure?”  So we had to have a little, like, taking it down a notch, like a little conversation.  He and I went off in the corner, and I was like, do you trust her?  He’s like, I do.  I’m like, do you trust the process?  He’s like, I don’t know.  So he was really, really honest about that.  So you’re 100% right that the fear aspect could be family; it could be partners.  I’ve had – I know with my own births, my family was like, are you sure you want to do this?  Are you sure?  And having that in the back of my head wasn’t helpful, and I’m sure as a doula you’ve seen this where I’ve had my students say, “My doctor is saying my baby is really big.  I don’t know if I can do it.”  Like, when you have fear laced in your mind, things are bumpy.  Then you go to, oh, maybe they were right.  Maybe I can’t do this.  So I think it’s really important to recognize that this could come up and build buffers.  And then also recognize, okay, my doctor said my baby’s really big.  So then instead of taking the fear aspect of “I don’t know if my body can do it,” it can open a conversation of, “All right, so what are my options?  If you think my baby’s really big, what are my options for ways to labor?  Do you need me to be still?  Can I have the option to move my body?  If you think my baby’s really big and you’re not sure my body can do this, let’s talk about what birthing positions we can use to maximize pelvis space.”  So I think sometimes we can use those fears and turn them around to how can we make more choices and how can we empower ourselves.  But that also takes somebody really willing to look at that, ant that also takes the environment to build that competence in the person.  I think it’s not easy for a lot of pregnant folks.

Kristin:  Yeah, and having those conversations with their provider about what their options are, like you mentioned.  Even positions to labor and deliver in if that is a concern.  Some positions are better if, you know, a potential big baby is a hurdle.  Some people, again, you know, it can be intimidating to have those conversations.

Deb:  It’s really hard to have those conversations.  You know, I say that as – I’m always telling to my students to talk to your care provider.  I remember one time trying to talk to my midwife, who I felt super comfortable with.  I was stuck.  I had a really hard time.  So also sharing with my students, this is – like, I recognize the challenge of what I’m asking you to do.  And I think that also then takes the pressure off because sometimes we can advocate for them without recognizing how hard it can be.

Kristin:  Exactly.  So one thing I love about all of your background and training is also just doing bodywork.  I mean, the body can store tension, anxiety, trauma even.  So I’m a big fan of prenatal yoga and movement during pregnancy.  So let’s talk a bit about that related to fear and how it can be helpful.

Deb:  Sure.  I think that sometimes – we’re talking about birth is as much in the body as the brain, and then sometimes I think when the brain gets too fixated on a fear, then we feel – we have that fear, tension, pain relationship.  So we’re fearful.  We have more tension.  Then we feel more pain.  It just keeps going back and forth.  So what I think is really helpful, and we do this in class a lot, is we look for ways to keep the breath and body moving.  And we know that when someone often is uncomfortable and tense and strained, if we can get them to exhale and move, that often releases some of that tension, and then it helps the breath and endorphins.  So we talk a lot about putting ourselves in poses that have strong sensations and working – instead of giving into, this hurts, oh my gosh, what am I feeling, this is getting worse and worse and worse – see that change a channel in the mind and then find some sort of breath pattern.  We talk about the three Rs.  So find some sort of rhythm and rituals.  So maybe we’re holding warrior two, and the legs are really warming up.  So instead of just sitting in that discomfort and getting more freaked out, can we either find a mantra that’s working our breath; can we find a movement with the arms; can we recognize where this unnecessary tension and then working to release that.  And then we also recognize that when our nervous system is really overactive and the adrenaline is shooting up, that’s going to affect labor.  So looking how to down regulate the nervous system through movement and breathing is also something we do a lot in class.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  Yes.  And breath is so key in birth, so whether it’s in early labor – and I even tell my clients when they’re having that warm-up labor, Braxton Hicks, to focus on practicing their breath work and using yogic breathing to prepare for birth.  And even saying things like give your baby oxygen.  Especially in the pandemic, wearing masks at different points during labor can be challenging.  I love that you mention breathwork in addition to yoga.

Deb:  Yeah, I think you’re on to something.  I think about birth and all the different coping skills; I always feel like breathwork is the foundation.  And then different accessories.  So maybe somebody’s using the breathwork with sound.  I’m a huge fan of sound.  I came up with a thing years ago called “open throat, open vagina” because I was a singer, and I remember my singing teacher having me move my hips one time when I was singing because I was getting really tight, and then I remember, like, a couple days later, I attended a birth, and I was listening to her sound, and I’m like, oh, my gosh, she’s really tight in her throat.  I bet her pelvis floor is really tight.  So I was having her do the same thing that my singing teacher had me do, move my hips, and the sound opened up and her whole body relaxed.  We do a lot with using the breath and sound.  We do a lot with using the breath and affirmations.  Sometimes we count the breaths.  So the breath, it feels like the foundation, and if we can get the breath to help relax the body, I think then that fear and that tension can really subside.

Kristin:  Exactly.  And in Lamaze, I mean, it’s all about being aware of where you’re carrying tension and how you and the partner connect and help loosen some of those areas, whether it’s the forehead or the shoulders.  And then again, like you said, breathwork and being open and wide versus your fists clenched and tight will help labor progress so much more quickly.  That is amazing.  And when women get high pitched in labor versus that tonal, low, moaning, that is also something to look for and recognize, if you’re getting high pitched, to go low.  And what are your thoughts as a singer, and what are suggesting to your students as far as toning or using their voice during labor?

Deb:  Oh, I love using the voice, and one of the things – for my own second birth, I actually was able to kind of step outside of my situation.  I remember being in the shower and listening to the sound, and there was a beat where I’m like, oh, that sounds really good.  Like, I was able to get out of the sensation and almost, like, float above the situation.  I’m like, oh, that sounds like a really open, good sound.  So we do a lot of vocal toning in class.  Now, I know not everyone is comfortable using their voice, and so I always just put myself as kind of like the biggest fool in the room.  Like, I will be louder than everyone else so you don’t have to be self-conscious about the sounds you’re making.  And then we’ll look at different sounds, so we’ll do – I have a pose I call screaming toe, and it’s a really strong stretch of the foot, and I’ll say, see what happens if you just naturally open and let your voice out, and most of the time it’s this high sound.  I’ll then mirror a lower sound and ask them to see if they can match that, and that is something that I would do when I was a doula.  If I heard this sound, I would try to help bring the sound down.  And that usually helped.  And then I would share that and say, practice this with your partner, and let your partner or whoever’s going to be attending your birth, your birth team, have them be attune to the sounds you’re making because that’s going to give a lot of insight to your mental state and your body tension and how well your breath is moving.  And so we do practice that a lot for the experience and then for them sharing that with their partner.  I love open throat.  I love relaxing.  And I think it’s something that I can remind them that their baby is hearing and feeling their voice, and then they get excited about that.

Kristin:  So true.  I love it.  So Deb, what are your favorite affirmations related to reducing fear?

Deb:  I have a few.  One is “this too shall pass.”  I feel like I use that a lot in my own life.  Another is “I trust my body.  I trust this process.”  And what I love about that is it’s not promising any outcome.  It’s trusting your body, which doesn’t mean it’s going to go how you want it to go, but you trust that your body knows what to do, and then you trust the process again.  It’s not saying that this is going to be birth I have totally envisioned, but I trust this process.  So I trust my body; I trust this process.  Sometimes it’s “I trust my body; I trust my baby.” Because also when we go back to trusting the baby, that’s also not promising a certain outcome because sometimes a baby is born in a different way than a birthing parent had in mind.  I had a client that really worked hard for a vaginal birth.  She hired an obstetrician that had a very low Cesarean rate, and she ended up having a Cesarean.  Every time she would push, her baby just decelled, and then it would bounce back up.  And the care provider tried everything, everything.  And when they finally had a Cesarean birth, the cord was really short.  Like, it was a high placenta at the very top of the fundus, and a really short – like, there was just no way.  Like, the baby could not – she was trying.  That baby was swimming downstream trying to get out, but it was literally a rope pulling it up.  So that was “I trust my baby” because sometimes the baby has a different path.  So I’ve seen that can be helping to let go of fear, that I trust my baby knows how it needs to be born.  Another one that I use a lot in class with breathwork and movement and releasing fear is “let go.”  And that’s just an invitation to let go of anything they don’t need to be holding onto; any pressure they put on themselves to have a certain birth, any pressure that they feel that they need to experience or sensations.  So let go of that; let go of tension; let go of fear.  That’s a go-to in my yoga classes as well as births.  So those are some – oh, and then another of my favorites is “the breath is the pathway through the sensation.”  I used that a lot in my own birth.  I used that a lot with clients.  I use that a lot even when I cycle.  “The breath is the pathway.”  I’m a big cyclist.  If I’m going up a really big hill, my legs are burning, and I have to remind myself, “my breath is my way through this.”  So I’m a big self-talker that way.

Kristin:  I love that.  That’s great.  Yeah, my favorite affirmation for clients who are, especially in that transition point when they doubt themselves, is “I can do anything for 15 minutes,” or a minute, even.  There are so many incredible ones, but I hadn’t heard some of the ones you shared, so thank you for that.

Deb:  Oh, absolutely, yeah.  Taking it by minute by minute – I love what you said.  It’s very important.  Because it can feel overwhelming.  You know, you’re in the middle of this, and you’re like, when is this going to end?  But then you just remind yourself, these teeny tiny increments of time.

Kristin:  Exactly.  So any other tips related to addressing fears in labor and birth?

Deb:  I think just giving yourself the time to sit with it and invite yourself, okay, what do I really feel around this?  And I do think it’s important to share with your team that the care provider should know, especially if there’s any trauma from the past that they may want to know; making sure they ask permission to touch your body if that is something – I think in general, they should always ask permission.  Consent is very important, but especially if there’s trauma.  Really indicating, I’m touching your leg.  May I touch your leg?  So creating that space.  But giving yourself the time to explore what fears; talking about ways if fear comes up, what do you need to help yourself get to the other side of it.  What do you need from your partner?  What do you need from your team?  Do you need maybe more space and time if things are feeling really rushed and you’re feeling overwhelmed by how quickly things might be going?  Can you ask for more time?  So being as open about what’s taking place so that those supporting you have the space and the knowledge to support you, and sharing – I guess just really sharing how you’d want to be supported.

Kristin:  Lovely.  So how can our listeners and our Becoming a Mother students who happen to live near you connect with you?  You have, again, so many different programs, along with your podcast and blog.  So fill us in.

Deb:  Yeah.  Well, since the pandemic, we’re actually online as much as we are in person.  In fact, I think maybe even more.  So we have livestream prenatal classes seven days a week, and we have postnatal classes once a week.  And so people can either jump on Zoom and join me there, or they can take classes in person, so New Yorkers who are on the upper west side, and they can check all this out on my website.  And then we’ve also got a ton of workshops because I think the more education – as you mentioned, if you don’t know your options, you don’t have any.  So education, workshops.  We’ve got a ton in person, online, on demand.  And then my podcast, Yoga Birth Babies, has almost 300 episodes.  So I’m pretty confident that people can find pretty much whatever they want to find on there, and I love that we continue.   In fact, you’ll be a guest pretty soon.  I’m excited about that.  So they can find me there, and then of course on Instagram.  And then if there’s anyone listening that’s also a yoga teacher, and this is something that excites you, to learn how to support the pregnant person, we’ve got a very in-depth prenatal and postnatal yoga teacher training.  All this can be found on my website.

Kristin:  Wonderful.  So, Deb, another question for our listeners who are really looking for in person prenatal or postnatal yoga.  How can you find a qualified center in your area if they’re not in New York?

Deb:  That’s a really good question.  I would say look at their training.  So there are not a ton of centers that are just pre- and postnatal throughout the country.  It’s a very specific niche.  There’s a couple.  But if you’re just looking for a prenatal class, look at the person’s bio and see if they have been trained.  I actually was just looking online, and someone DM’d me saying, oh, I’m following your Instagram because I’m pregnant and I teach yoga, so I’m going to start teaching prenatal yoga.  And I thought, that doesn’t really equate to – like, you’re pregnant and you’re a yoga teacher doesn’t mean that you should be a prenatal yoga teacher.  And then of course I’m like, do I say anything, do I not?  But at least for the listeners that are listening here, find out and make sure they’re actually educated in this because there are considerations to take for the pregnant body.  One of the things that we do a lot in our classes is we work a lot on balancing the pelvis and the soft tissue in the pelvic floor for a more efficient and functional birth.  And it’s not just about modifying poses around a belly.  It’s how can we use this practice to have a smoother birth.  And so I hope that a lot of – I’m confident a lot of prenatal teachers approach it that way.  But I guess they should not just look at, are they certified, but maybe ask what’s their methodology; what’s their belief about how to support pregnant folks in a prenatal yoga class.  Because I really believe prenatal yoga can be a tool to help prepare the mind and the body for a more efficient birth.  No one wants a long, arduous birth.  Everyone wants that baby in a good position and kind of rotating and descending out easily.  No one wants those speed bumps.  So I think yoga can help or hinder.  So make sure that the person is well-qualified.   That’s a very long answer to your question.  Sorry about that.

Kristin:  That was perfect.  Appreciate it.  It was so great to chat with you, Deb, and I look forward to being on your podcast in the future, as well.

Deb:  Thank you so much.

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

 

Kristin chats with Sabrina of Osso Safe about preventing violence in a relationship and how OSSO safe can protect families.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Hello!  This is Kristin with Ask the Doulas.  My guest today is Sabrina Ossa, and Sabrina is the founder and CEO of Osso Safe.  Welcome, Sabrina!

Sabrina:  Hello, Kristin.  Thank you so much.  We’re so happy to be with you.

Kristin:  It’s great to have you here!  So you have quite the resume.  You’re a TEDx speaker, a real estate agent, a consultant on promoting safety and preventing violence in the workplace, in schools, and also in personal residences, correct?

Sabrina:  Correct, yes, yes.  We focus on those three markets, if you will.

Kristin:  And you’re also a dancer by trade?  I love it.

Sabrina:  Yes, yes.  Thank you.

Kristin:  So, Sabrina, how did you get into this line of work focusing on safety in so many different aspects of life?

Sabrina:  Yes.  I’ve had enough therapy – I’ve been in and out of therapy for quite some time now to be comfortable enough to say that I did grow up with violence.  My father beat my mother on a regular basis, and my mother would be abusive towards me.  So I have firsthand experience with just witnessing it and also having it done to me.  So it kind of really gives you a lot of – how do I say?  Experience in things that you really don’t want to have experience in, but if you use it, you use it to help other people.  And Osso Safe really started out as a one-woman show.  You mentioned I am a dancer.  I was auditioning.  I was performing.  And I started writing my one-woman show as a dancer, and I play different women being abused.  She goes to her good place.  That’s where the dancing comes in.  But then she’s pulled back into the terror of violence.  But the show ends really strong, really empowering.  And I did a lot of research for the show because I wanted it to be educational and entertaining, and I could not believe the statistics that I was finding, how it’s so common.  And I said to myself, I need to make this into a bona fide business with products and services that can really help people, including myself, really.  And that’s how Osso Safe was born.  We’re not a nonprofit.  We’re not a charity.  We respect all of the charities and nonprofits that do this work, but we have a very different approach to it, and we can talk about that later on in the interview, but hopefully I answered the question, how did Osso Safe come about.

Kristin:  Yes, you answered it beautifully.  And so your product is a blend of technology and also holistic care, and it seems very unique.

Sabrina:  Yes, yes.  We combine education and technology to promote safety and prevent violence, and a lot of it has to do with real estate, your home, your residence.  That’s where we focus on because we say if your homes are safe, then your workplaces will be safe; schools will be safe; universities; our public places; our concerts; our malls.  It all starts in the home, and I love your podcast because it focuses on children, and children are always victims.  I was one of them, and they’re the most vulnerable.  And so we really focus on them.  They are the true victims in this whole horrible equation, but we’re very hopeful.  We’re very positive.  And the technology, it holds people accountable, and we make this a part of residency.

Kristin:  So getting into relationships, of course, at Ask the Doulas, we are – you know, our listeners and our doula clients are either pregnant or in the first year of their child’s life.  So getting into your focus on relationships and home life, what are some examples of being in a good strong relationship, and there are so many changes that happen after baby is home that may cause some stressors.

Sabrina:  Yes, yes.  We strongly feel that – now, it takes two people to make a baby, right?  So we focus on, look, both of you have to work together, and whether they’re divorced, whether they are – and even as a single parent, and I’m sure a lot of parents or every parent, I would say, is wearing a lot of hats, right?  So it is very important to have on the forefront of your mind a few things.  One is that you have to know, you deserve to be in a good relationship.  You need to make it a point to get along with your significant other, your boyfriend, your girlfriend, your – if that person is your ex.  And we realize things don’t work out.  Maybe you’re already split up, but you’re pregnant and you’re sharing this child with this person.  It happens, right?  You have to keep on the forefront of your mind that I am not going to endanger my child in any way.  When we – not if; when we disagree, myself and my significant other, I’m going to make it a point that I’m not going to fight.  I’m not going to be yelling and screaming and being verbally, physically, or sexually abusive to my partner or to my significant other or to my ex; not in front of my children, not in front of my infant, because – and I’ve done research on this.  Infants, the formative years are between 0 and 6 years old.  They know; they recognize when there is turmoil, when there is upset, when there is conflict.  Even though they don’t know exactly what is going on, but they know that something is amiss, so it’s very traumatic to a child when they hear mom and dad fight.  And we’re not saying don’t ever fight.  You’re not going to disagree.  That’s not realistic.  Of course you’re going to disagree.  But there’s a way to fight.  There’s a way to disagree.  And you have to make it a promise before this child enters the world that you’re not going to be verbally, physically, or sexually abusive.  Make that as a rule right from the beginning, and we’ll say, look, when we do disagree, we’re going to make it a point that we don’t cross that line.  And if we have to distance ourselves, then we will distance ourselves and remove ourselves from the situation.  Say, look, let’s come back to it.  Let’s discuss this after taking a breather for a half hour, an hour, a day, a whole day, whatever it takes.  But I would say to parents, you need to be very proactive and making it a point to really make the effort to not fight in front of those children.  I would see my parents fight all the time, and I can tell you from personal experience, it’s very traumatic.  And I got to say, abusive parents, they love an audience.  They love an audience, especially when it’s their own children, because they feel like they have people already on their side.  But you’re hurting your children.  You’re being abusive toward your children by doing that.  So I would say include therapy as part of your regular parenting.  There’s no shame in getting help.  There’s shame in not getting help.  And we make this a point of residency.  I can talk about this later on in the interview, but we make therapy – it’s like a standard.  We don’t wait for an episode of violence to occur in our properties.  We have therapists assigned to the property, and every month, you’re required to check in with your therapist.  Is everything okay?  Do you feel like anything is looming?  So all of this is on the preventative side versus waiting for an episode of violence or conflict to occur.  I mean, I could go on and on with tips, but I would say just those would really make a difference in a child’s life.  The not fighting; you’re not going to be abusive towards one another; respect is the number one requirement in any relationship.  You respect me; I respect you.  That’s very important.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  That’s so true.  I was absolutely agreeing with you.  And I find it interesting – I mean, as a real estate agent, you are putting yourself in uncomfortable situations with strangers as you’re showing homes.  How does that translate to the industry of real estate as I’m thinking about our doulas not necessarily having a relationship with families and coming into a home in safety for professionals in certain settings?

Sabrina:  Yes, excellent point.  They’re in higher positions, if you will, in the real estate industry.  For example, we’re based in New Jersey, so the New Jersey Association of Realtors and the National Association of Realtors.  We put ourselves – it’s “the nature of the business,” where you’re showing a property and it’s very – it is dangerous.  You’re dealing with strangers, and yes, some of them have good faith.  They operate out of good faith.  But others, there are cases, or I should say conclusions, where the real estate agent gets murdered or gets kidnapped, and this is a big problem for us in the real estate industry.  And they need to do more to protect because you could say – they say to us, “Make sure that your client goes first, and make sure you’re there with someone else, and make sure you have your cell phone on hand.”  But all of those things are really – when someone’s out to harm you and you’re there, even with your partner, with someone else, another agent, if that person wants to harm you, they will, and especially if it’s an abandoned property or the property is – you’re alone, whether in the day or at nighttime.  You could do all that you can to have someone with you, but sometimes it’s just not possible, and you’re showing properties.  So this is where my technology, the technology that I have – I have hired a software company.  It will have multiple applications.  This will help real estate agents because it gets installed, and it will detect violent-like movements and captures them in real time, issuing alerts to, let’s say, a landlord or to your broker of record or to the mom and dad who hired a nanny to watch their child.

Kristin:  That was my next question, yes, what to do about caregivers when you’re not in the home and wanting safety for your child.

Sabrina:  Right.  It’s called the Osso Safe app, and right now it’s being updated, but it will have multiple applications, and this will help getting police to the residence if you can’t get there.   Look, I just saw someone break in, and it’s detecting violence.  I just saw someone get slapped.  I just saw my child get smacked across the face by the nanny.  I just saw one of my real estate agents.  There’s an alert, and this person, they’re not – this potential buyer, he’s really – he’s not operating out of good faith.  So you get the alert right away so that way you can send help.  And we’re also setting it up where help, like 911, is called right away because it’s detecting violence.  It’s detecting, like I said, a slap, a punch, a kick.  And this also we wanted to carry over in residency with your spouse, with your significant other, with your boyfriend, your girlfriend.  And we’re saying, look, we need to make safety a required standard condition of residency.  When you sign that lease, when you sign that mortgage, when you sign that title, well, now, you’re not going to get away with half the things that you got away with before because now safety is a required standard condition of residency.  And this protects children because children, there are 15 million children that witness violence in their own homes each and every year in the US alone, and those are just the ones that are documented.  So there are a lot of good parents out there, Kristin, but let’s face it, there are a number of not good parents, abusive, violent, chaotic, dysfunction.  So we’re saying, look, abusive parents, you’re not going to get away with this anymore.  Children have rights in Osso Safe certified properties, and we will hold you accountable.  And these children, we don’t wait until they’re 18 for them to have agency over their lives.  As soon as they are pre-K, kindergarten, they get to say.  They have a say who they feel safe with, and we have developed something called Osso Safe kids.  Anyone can Google it.  It’s like a channel right now that I have on YouTube, but we give advice to children, abused children or non-abused children, and we’re unifying them and saying, look, help each other out.  Abused kids, and we talk about it very openly.  It’s not your fault.  You’re not alone.  The fact that if dad is beating you up or mom is putting you down, this is not Osso Safe.  This is now how it’s supposed to be, and you can speak out.  So, I mean, there’s a lot more to it, but just to give a summation of everything between the technology and Osso Safe kids and as real estate agents applying the technology to real estate agents.  So just to give a brief summation of everything.

Kristin:  Yeah.  So it sounds like this could even eventually be used in daycare centers and a lot of different models.

Sabrina:  Yes.  Yes, it will have multiple applications, as I mentioned.  Even pet-sitters.  You know, pet-sitters, elderly people, or children, nannies as we said.  Definitely in residency as a regular part of residency.  So the technology complements the education, and the education complements the technology, if you will.

Kristin:  So it’s beyond your typical nanny cam or baby monitor where you need to go back through all of the recordings.  You would actually, you know, have notifications based on movement, like you said?  So it’s very sophisticated.

Sabrina:  Right, violent movement, correct.  Exactly.

Kristin:  So how can our listeners, you know, find you?  I know you’ve got a great TEDx talk.  If they’re needing more resources, what are your preferred methods of contact?

Sabrina:  Yes.  You can call the lawyers, right, the 1-800 numbers.  I believe it’s – well, it depends on your state, right?  So they all have their respective 1-800 numbers.  The National Domestic Violence hotline.  And then you call the police, and you could either get a restraining order or not, and you go to court and you could hire the lawyers and you could hire the mediators and the paracoordinators and get child protective service agencies and the judges.  But I have to say, Kristin, as someone with personal and professional experience in this realm with the legal part of it, it is horrendous out there, I have to say, and I’m speaking from personal and professional experience.  All of it together, they have this let them eat cake approach, if you will, because at the end of the day, they don’t care.  I hate to sound like that, but children’s lives are not valued.  They are not seen as you’re going through this, and we are so sorry about this.  They have this, well, you too have to get along, like the abusive parents.  It’s like a slap on the wrist.  You two have to get along.  You’ll be spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, and you’ll be worse off than when you set foot in that courtroom.  It would have been better off if you never even set foot in the courtroom, I have to say.  And these judges, I also have to state, they are very ill-informed.  They are uninformed, and they care more about their caseloads than actually – they do what is in the worst interest of the abused child versus what is in the best interest of the abused child.  So at Osso Safe, we’re saying, look – and we consult with a small team of lawyers on a regular basis on everything that we do, and one of them is a family law attorney, and she said, “Sabrina, with your Osso Safe certifications of properties, and you want this to carry over, over all residency, you are short-circuiting the entire process.  You don’t even need the courts because you make safety a required standard condition of residency.  You nip it right in the bud right in residency.  You won’t need the courts.  You won’t need lawyers.  You won’t need –

Kristin:  Evidence and text messages and – yeah.

Sabrina:  Right, because everything is done right in residency between the technology and the education because it’s more preventative versus waiting for an episode of violence to occur and the police show up, and at that point, it’s almost too late.  The children are terrified.  They are traumatized.  We do all of this education right at the beginning of residency.  Even if you’re in your residence for like a year or six months, we do all the education as a standard, if you will.  So we want to say that, yes, you could use all the resources out there, but as we get more momentum and we’re doing a lot of these podcasts to get the word out, hire us.  Get your properties Osso Safe certified, whether you rent, whether you own, whether you have a mortgage or not.  Get your schools Osso Safe certified.  Get your workplaces Osso Safe certified.  You won’t need the courts.  In fact, I actually said this to a – and this was at the New Jersey Apartment Association.  I said, the laws will have to catch up to what Osso Safe is doing in terms of residency, in terms of really making homes and residences safe, especially for children, because we are combining education and technology.  And I also want to mention to couples raising their children: please, stay away from giving any pornographic material to your sons, and daughters for that matter.  Pornography is a big driver of violence.  We say pornography is 88.2% physical aggression towards women.  So do yourselves a favor.  And it’s not about sexual freedom.  We’re all for sexual freedom at Osso Safe.  Pornography is the opposite of freedom.  It’s all about bondage, domination, sadism, masochism.  And we’re not teaching our children to have good sexual relationships – good relationships, period.  So stay away from pornography, and it just feeds into child rape, sex trafficking, child sex trafficking.  So I wanted to say that on your podcast, especially for children, because so many of them fall victim in these trafficking rings, if you will, and it happens in every part of society, whether you have money, whether you don’t have a lot of money, regardless of religion, regardless of nationality, background.  It is a – I believe it’s a $100 billion industry, sex trafficking.  And a lot of it is fed, if not all of it is fed, through pornography.  Yeah, so I hope I gave pertinent tips, and as far as finding me or finding us, the website is ossosafe.com.  You can Google Osso Safe kids.  I have my TEDx talk out there.   All of the major social media platforms; we’ll on all of them.  Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram.  So I hope I answered a lot of your questions, Kristin.

Kristin:  You sure did, Sabrina.  What a wealth of information.  It’s overwhelming to hear some of these stats.  So thank you for sharing.  Any final tips, even on, as you mentioned, trafficking?  Like traveling with children, any safety tips?

Sabrina:  Yes.  Definitely keep your eye on your children when you are out there.  At schools – I hate to say this, but schools are breeding grounds for school shootings and sex trafficking.  Have a code with your child where – like, let’s say someone poses as someone who’s going to go pick them up, and have your child say, “Well, what’s the code?  What is the code word or the code number?”  And you will throw that potential sex trafficker right off.  Like, oh – like, something like “barracuda” or something very unique, you know?  And that person will run.  And have that child – say to that child, “Look, nothing you can do will make me get upset with you.  I mean, we do” – oh, something that should be differentiated: discipline instills education, and abuse instills fear.  And we make it a point in our properties and in our education to differentiate that and to teach parents about that, what the difference is.  So I’m sorry; I’m jumping from one thing to the other.  But I want to say, abusive parents, what you do is very different than what Osso Safe parents do.  Parents that practice safety, empowerment, encouragement, respect, positivity.  And this is what you need to learn, abusive parents.  And just because you are a parent, it doesn’t give you the right to abuse your child.  We want to say that, to leave your audience with that.

Kristin:  Thank you so much.  I appreciate all of the work that you’re doing.

Sabrina:  Thank you, Kristin.

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

Kristin chats with Gold Coast client Amber Shaw about her postnatal recovery.  She shares the challenges she faced and discusses how she advocated for her needs.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes or SoundCloud.  You can also check out Amber’s birth story and her experience with the Becoming course.  

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Hello, hello.  This is Kristin, and I am joined again by Amber Shaw.  Now, Amber filled us in a bit on her VBAC story, and today we’re going to talk about her postnatal journey.  Welcome, Amber!

Amber:  Thank you so much!

Kristin:  So fill us in.  We’ve talked a bit about your birth story with Miles, but now we’re going to talk about, you know, immediately coming home from delivering and just how you felt in recovery and feeding and all of the things.

Amber:  Well, I guess my story kind of starts, you know, right after my delivery.  So going into it, I didn’t know really what to expect with a vaginal delivery and the healing process because my first was a C-section.  So I knew what that was like.  And, you know, I prepared and I bought the padsicles and, like, bought the stuff, you know, to kind of heal myself, but looking back on it, I think that so much preparation goes into birth.  You spend months and months mentally and physically preparing for birth, and it’s kind of like a – it happens in the blink of an eye almost, and then you’re kind of left with your postpartum journey, which I don’t think is prepared for nearly enough.

Kristin:  Totally agree.

Amber:  Yeah.  That was kind of my realization.  I went into it thinking that, you know, a vaginal birth was going to be way easier to heal from.  I was going to be able to just kind of, you know, get up and start moving around and start walking, and I was just going to bounce back quicker.  And so right after delivery, I get up into my room, and they want me to get up and go to the bathroom, and I realized I couldn’t walk at all.  It was excruciating, and it wasn’t even necessarily the stitch area, it was just everything.

Kristin:  And the cramping you feel after delivery.

Amber:  Yeah, as well as my pelvic bone.  It was my pubic bone, I quickly realized, because I couldn’t take a step forward.  I had to, like, side shuffle almost because I had so much destabilization from pushing for so long, and it was just shocking to me.  Like, the pain was shocking.  The fact that I couldn’t walk was shocking.  It’s, like, not what I expected, and I feel like I immediately was just like kind of taken off guard by what was going on with my body.  And so – and they were – I think the nurses – like, everybody was just kind of confused as to why I couldn’t walk, and the whole pubic symphysis situation I was feeling still wasn’t really realized at that point, even by me.  I just didn’t understand why I couldn’t walk.  And come to find out a little bit down the road, like, now we understand what happened and why I was in so much pain.  But every single time I had to get up and go to the bathroom, I had to call the nurses in.  Just this big thing, and just not what I expected at all.  So the first night in the hospital was really rough.  I was having a hard time just getting pain under control, and again, with my first birth, you’re on narcotics when you have a C-section because, obviously, it’s like a surgical procedure.  But this time, like, I felt, you know, like my body went through more, and you’re given, like, Tylenol.  It’s just kind of laughable thinking about it.  Not that I wanted to be, like, drugged up, but it’s like, oh, my gosh.  It just didn’t even, like, light a candle to the discomfort I was dealing with.  So I was really just more leaning on other things I could do because obviously, you know, I didn’t really have, like, pain medication to help with the discomfort.  So I was trying to keep a lot of ice on myself, but it was rough.  And I do feel like I was let go from the hospital probably sooner than I should have been.  I was still just, like, not mobile at all.  And we just weren’t prepared for this.  You know, we have a four-year-old at home.  I have a newborn, and I needed full time care myself.  Like, I couldn’t get up and move at all.  Like, I had to be helped to the bathroom.  You know, I had a walker.  I had to use a walker at home.  So my mom ended up coming, thank God.  She met us here the night I got home from the hospital, and she stayed with us for, like, three weeks.  That was such a blessing, and I look back on it, and I don’t know what I would have done if she wouldn’t have been able to come at the drop of the dime like that.  It’s not what we were planning on, you know?  I thought I was going to be up and moving and, you know, Ashton was off of work, and he was going to be able to help out with the boys, too, but that just was not our situation at all.  So that was really helpful.  So she met us at our house that night, and man, the first couple nights were just so rough.  I couldn’t find a comfortable spot to be in at all.  Like, laying down was painful.  Sitting up fully was painful.  I think I slept the first night at home, like, in a recliner with the bassinet next to me, just having a hard time finding any comfort at all at first.  And then a couple days later, when I was just not as raw but obviously still dealing with some discomforts, I had Annie from Rise come out and do some adjustments, you know, for Miles and I, and I just cried and cried to her.  I was just broken.  I didn’t understand why I couldn’t even walk at that point, and I just was devastated at the state of my body.  And also kind of at this point, a friend of mine had come over the night after I had gotten home because I just, like, had some concerns about how I was feeling.  I felt like my blood pressure was really low.  I was just feeling so completely depleted, and I just didn’t know if it was normal or not.  And so she came over, and she noticed that I had a little bit of an arrhythmia going on with my heart, and she’s like, has anybody ever noticed that before?  You know, nobody – it hasn’t really been brought up before.  So I was like, no, not really.  You know, it might just be, like, a postpartum thing.  So I brought it up to Annie.  She kind of noticed it, as well.  Then it was kind of just forgotten about.  You know, she adjusted me, and my heart was feeling weird, but there was so much other stuff going on, you know, with my body.  I kind of ignored that for the time being.  So two weeks after Miles was born, I came down with my first round of mastitis.

Kristin:  Miserable!

Amber:  Oh, my gosh.  Yeah, it was – you know, I’d read about it, and I was always really scared to get it with Parker, so I was really diligent about pumping and massaging and just always emptying myself, and I feel like because, you know, this healing process was so different, I wasn’t managing my breastfeeding as well.  Like, I kind of let him feed on one side and then – you know, he’s kind of a grazer.  He doesn’t, like, empty me on both sides.  He kind of grazes.  And so I was just kind of letting him do that, and yeah, the mastitis came on quick, and I didn’t even really realize what it was.  I thought I had like a UTI or something.  And the very next day was – you know, we had an appointment with Miles, and my midwife checked me out in the bathroom.  I didn’t really have an appointment with her, but she’s like, I want to look at you.  And she kind of realized that I had mastitis because I was pretty engorged at that point, but I still was like, I don’t know if I do.  But absolutely did.  It hit really hard and fast.  That was really rough.  And always just a little discouraging to get that, you know, right off the bat because you just want to, like, start out your breastfeeding journey so strong, and it was discouraging to have that going on while I was dealing with so many other issues, and I was so scared about my supply.

Kristin:  Of course.

Amber:  And being on antibiotics, you know, right after you have a baby.  I didn’t want to do that.  But, you know, ultimately, your care has to kind of come first because if you’re not doing well, obviously, you can’t care for you baby as well, either.  So that was another little hurdle that was pretty tough.  But it’s weird.  It comes on quick but also goes away relatively quickly.  So after a day or two of antibiotics, I started feeling better and my supply kind of got back up and kind of got over that hurdle a little bit.  So I was still dealing with not being able to walk very well, but it was getting a little bit better at this point.  And I had my six week checkup, and I was still dealing with quite a bit of discomfort in my stitch area and particularly one side of my stitches, so I felt like one side was healing better than the other.  And I didn’t know if that was normal.  I feel like you never know what’s normal because –

Kristin:  Every experience was new to you.  It was different.

Amber:  Yeah.  Yeah, and I feel like everything’s normal and everything’s not normal at the same time.  You’re just like – you know, this is my journey.  You know, maybe this is normal to experience, but at the same time, you’re kind of questioning everything at the same time.  You kind of feel like you’re kind of floating along with just not a lot of direction on the healing process and what that should look like.  And so I had my six-week appointment, and I was checked – I brought up my concern, and I said that I was still having quite a bit of pain on side.  And during my exam, it was realized that I needed a revision on my stitches.  So that was quite a blow.  I had already had six weeks of healing under my belt and then had to have them redone on one side, on that side that I had quite a bit of pain in.  And it was explained to me – you know, obviously, when you push for a while, you’re very swollen, and I was stitched up when I was pretty swollen.  They try to kind of piece the tissue back together as much as possible, but sometimes things can happen, and so I had some nerve and rawness exposure that needed to be fixed, and that was really scary because I was still so, just – I was just wrecked down there, and to think about going through that while I was still in the process of healing was just terrifying, and it really – that was, like, a tough thing to wrap my head around.  And so it happened pretty quickly.  The very next week, I ended up getting in and got the revision done, and that really set me back quite a bit.  I expected it to be, obviously, like, painful and uncomfortable, but it really kind of – it was extremely uncomfortable, and I really had a hard time with the pain during the revision healing process, like almost worse than the first time around, and I’m not really sure why that is.  But yeah, thank God, my mom ended up coming back yet again.  Yeah, she was at our house kind of helping with everything while I took it easy and just iced.  And it took quite a while for that to get back to kind of a normal – to feel like I was actually, like, healing.  I feel like it’s such a blur still in my mind, like, all of it, so it’s kind of hard to, like, sort.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Amber:  So healing from the revision was a lot more difficult than I thought it would be.  You know, I was thinking I just had to get it revised on one side, but it really set me back quite a bit in just my healing process.  I felt like I was kind of at the beginning all over again.  Ice a ton and just having to, like, rest a lot.  And I am just a busy body.  I’m not good at resting, and at this point, I’m, like, seven weeks into my healing journey, and I’m feeling like I’m on week one again.  And it was just a really discouraging time.

Kristin:  Right, because you think you’ll get cleared for exercise and all of these things by that point.

Amber:  Yeah, like, six weeks is what you kind of, like, have a goal of just having some kind of normalcy back, and I was not even close to that.  I wasn’t even close to normalcy.  And it was – I just felt like I had so many people reaching out and being like, how are you, how are you, and I was so sick of even talking about all of these hurdles I was facing, so I wasn’t even really being honest with people because it was just exhausting.  For me to tell them that I had yet another thing done, and even talking about a revision, it’s kind of – just not something you want to talk to people about because it’s just one of those things about pregnancy and healing that you’re kind of just, like, mum about a little bit.  And so I just felt like I was kind of alone, you know, kind of just dealing with this postpartum thing on my own, and I was clearly on my own timeline.

Kristin:  Did you reach out to your doulas?  I know you and I talked, but –

Amber:  Yeah, I was definitely in touch with them.  I mean, I had my little tribe, of course, of people that I felt comfortable with and would talk about things with, but as a whole, I kind of started to kind of get reclusive with people and just – I just didn’t even have energy to talk about it anymore because I felt like every time I would kind of jump ahead in my journey a little bit, I had something that knocked me back.  And so this was kind of a little bit of a dark time during the revision process.  Also, not to mention, this was during the summer, and I was really looking forward to being able to get in the water with my son again.  I did not swim at all this summer, and that seems like something so little, but we were out at our cabin a lot, and I just could never get in and play with him, and he didn’t really understand why.  Like, he did; he knew that I was healing, but it was just sad to sit on the sidelines and not be able to play in the water because that’s something that I do a lot.

Kristin:  In Michigan, I mean, summer is our time.

Amber:  Yes.  Summer was just – oh, this summer just didn’t count for me, you know?  It might as well have been like the winter.  I just feel like I wasn’t able to really enjoy a lot of it.  But eventually, I did heal from the revision.  Had obviously a lot of sensitivity for a long time.  I still do.  But that kind of started to fizzle off and I started to heal a little bit from that.  Well, at my two-week checkup before my revision, I was in there and the nurse took my pulse, my heart rate, and she, like, looked really concerned, and then she did it again, and she wasn’t even, like, talking to me.  And then she’s like, your heart rate is really low.  Hold on one second.  And then, you know, she went out and got her watch to do it the old school way.  My heart rate was at, like, 32, which is insanely low.  So normal is, like, 60 is the low end of normal.  It’s like 60 to 100 with women.  And I was in the 30s, and she’s like, this is really concerning.  Do you usually have a low heart rate, and I don’t.  Then my OB came in and checked it too, and they were like, we should advise you really to go to the walk-in clinic or the ER right now, but how are you feeling?  And I felt okay, but as they were talking about it, I could feel my anxiety almost start to rise.  Like, it was like a placebo thing, and I was like, oh, my God, my heart rate does feel really weird right now.  They were like, you need to follow up with your primary care physician immediately about this.  And so it was concerning, you know?  They didn’t know why my heart rate was so low.  And so I ended up getting in with my primary care physician a couple weeks later, and I kind of thought about it, and I was, like, noticing it a little bit more, and then I kind of remembered that this was brought to my attention, like, weeks earlier, but I had just had so much other stuff I was juggling with healing and my postpartum stuff that I just wasn’t even paying attention to my heart.  But now that everything else was kind of starting to feel a little bit more normal, my heart was, like, center stage now, and it was like, okay, you have to deal with me now.  So, you know, I was like, how is this now happening?  You know what I mean?  Like, I just felt like I had one thing after another, and I was like, what is going on with my heart now?  So I have a newborn and I have a four-year-old, and it’s concerning.  So I got into my primary care physician, and she put a heart monitor on me, so I wore a heart monitor for a week and it recorded everything.  Got that data in.  And then I had a meeting with her, essentially going over what she found, and she was like, you need to see a cardiologist.  You have a lot of irregularities, essentially, with your heart going on right now.  You have extreme highs and lows.  So I was going from my heartrate being in the 30s to in the high 100s, back and forth all day long.  And she was like, this is not a normal thing.  You need to get this checked out.  And so I ended up getting in to see a cardiologist, and this was a very stressful time, thinking that I’m on the verge of having a heart attack, and I felt like because I was more aware of it, I was causing probably more of it.  I was having a lot of palpitations at this point, and it was just a really stressful thing, obviously, for my family.  My husband’s really concerned about me, and it’s my heart.  And so it took a while to get in to see a cardiologist because, of course, any time you need a specialist –

Kristin:  And it’s COVID.  So of course, like…

Amber:  Yeah.  It took a bit, so probably three or four weeks, I had to wait to get in to see a cardiologist.  But – and I’m still kind of on this journey right now, but long story short, I’ve essentially been diagnosed with benign PVCs.  What that means is I have – my heart, like, misses a beat and then does, like, a double beat, like all day long.  And he thinks it is due to trauma from birth and my healing process and also anxiety, which is kind of crazy that birth and just all of the stress of that can affect one of your organs like that.  I am going to get a second opinion coming up in a few weeks here because I’m still very much experiencing it, and it was left a little open ended.  I don’t know when or if there’s going to be an end to it.  It might be something that I always deal with.  So it’s kind of just this thing that’s still happening.  Like, I feel it happening right now.  I have palpitations.  And it’s kind of becoming a new norm for me, but I’m also like, can this be alleviated somehow?  So, yeah, still very much dealing with that.  But looking back on my postpartum journey, it was not as I expected, and I felt very caught off guard by just how my body, I guess reacted to birth.  Like, it was – I felt like I was at the strongest moment in my life immediately followed by the weakest moment of my life.  Not being able to walk directly after, and that was such a hard thing to grapple with because I was so proud of what I had just done, and then I felt like my body just fell apart, and I kind of abandoned it.  I was like, I don’t know you anymore, and I’m not going to take care of you like I should.  I felt like I just wasn’t in touch with myself as much anymore because I just felt like it failed me.  And so I’m very much on a journey right now of trying to love myself, like, where I’m at, love my body where it’s at, be in gratitude of it for what it’s done and what it’s still doing instead of cursing it for not working like it should and jumping back as quickly as I wanted it to.  It’s been a huge learning process for me that I’m very much still in, and it’s going to be a long journey for me, I think.  And I just feel like I wanted to talk about this because I think women, and obviously society, there is a pushback going on right now, thank God, of just the bounce back that you should experience and that you think is, like, normal after birth.  And every single birth is different, and every single person’s body is different, and you have no idea –

Kristin:  Exactly, and every baby is different, so temperaments and sleep and feeding, it’s all unique.

Amber:  Yep.  So to expect to fit into some kind of box, to think that you need to, like, get back to normal even at six weeks, I think, is insane.  Six weeks is nothing compared to, like, the trauma that your body just went through.  So for that to be, like, this goal of women to be like, I can have sex and I can work out and I can do all these things at six weeks – like, get that out of your head.

Kristin:  And fit in my jeans and all of the goals that we have, which are unrealistic, and you look at traditional cultures and the time that they take for healing and community caring for them, I mean, it’s the first 40 days in many cultures, some even longer than that, where they’re not lifting a finger.  And yeah, so it’s just – I feel like we need to get back to really caring for each other, and the role of a postpartum doula in a lot of that nurturing and healing phase and getting systems in place is so key.

Amber:  Absolutely.  I was so grateful to have my mom, and if I didn’t have my mom, I absolutely would have had a postpartum doula because when you have another child, especially – like, your husband can only take care of so many people.

Kristin:  Your partner needs sleep.

Amber:  Yeah.  You are the patient, and you need to view yourself as a patient.  Obviously, the baby needs care and your other child needs care, but you need it just as much, and I definitely went through a lot of phases where I was just like, not taking care of myself like I should have been.  I felt like my body kept just reminding me, like, you need to slow down.  I’m going to give you another hurdle here to slow you down, to slow you down.

Kristin:  And as you said, you’re someone who’s always on the go.  I can relate to that, and I don’t like to slow down for anything.  So, yeah, but it is key to be able to have your mother there to mother you, and that’s what postpartum doulas – you know, we always tell our clients, the birthing person is our primary client, then the baby, then the partner and the other children.  So it’s like – yeah.

Amber:  I feel like you’re such an afterthought after birth.  You know, like, you’re just expected to heal in this linear line.  Unfortunately, I feel like women, if they’re in a traditional setting, it’s very cut and dry.  You know, you give birth.  You go through this process.  They see you at six weeks.  You’re cleared at six weeks, and that’s it, and it’s like there’s so much gray area floating around in that of – just so much gray area that you need to have somebody like a doula or just support people in general to just let you know that you’re okay and you’re on a road to recovery, and what you’re experiencing is normal.

Kristin:  Yeah, and before we end, talking about building your team of support, what point – I know that you were seeing a pelvic floor therapist for healing.  At what point were you able to get help after healing?

Amber:  It took me a long time, mainly because of my tissue damage.  So I wanted to see a pelvic floor therapist immediately.  Like, I wanted to see them at six weeks, but at six weeks, I had to be restitched.  So to have anybody down there doing anything was just cringe-worthy for me.

Kristin:  Of course.

Amber:  So I feel like I got a later start to therapy than I wanted to have, but it was also just – it was my timeline.  And so I just started seeing a pelvic floor therapist about six weeks ago.  I’m dealing with some prolapse, as well.  So I wasn’t sure that’s what it was.  You know, I was experiencing just sensations down there that I knew wasn’t normal, but once again, when it’s your first vaginal birth and you’re healing from that, you don’t know what normal is.

Kristin:  Right.  You have nothing to compare it to.

Amber:  Nothing to compare it to, yeah.  So, yeah, I’m dealing with some prolapse, so I’m primarily going to pelvic floor PT for my prolapse.  And also my pubic bone is still giving me problems.  It’s not nearly as bad.  I can walk, but still, overextending it, overexerting it, I still get kind of sore.  But the prolapse is the big thing at this point that I’m trying to get under control.

Kristin:  But you’re back at barre, slowly.

Amber:  I am.  I am back at barre, yep.  And honestly, I know I talked about it for pregnancy, but it’s such an incredible thing postpartum as well because so many of the movements are engaging your pelvic floor and engaging your core muscles, and those are the things that you need to build back up after having a baby and being pregnant.  So once again, it’s been such a huge blessing in my recovery process that I’m just so lucky that I have.  Yeah, I’m grateful for sure.

Kristin:  There’s so many lessons in this podcast as we wrap it up here.  I think one is listening to your body.  What other advice do you have for our listeners?

Amber:  Grace.  Being so graceful with yourself and just trying so hard to deeply love yourself through it.  I had this really intense moment that I’ll share that’s pretty vulnerable, but it was kind of a little bit of a breakthrough with me.  So I didn’t really realize how much I had abandoned myself during my healing process.  I was kind of in victim mode a little bit and just feeling like I didn’t understand why all these things kept happening, and I was just in kind of a dark space and not connected to myself.  I was impatient.  I was just not feeling good.  And so I took a bath one day, and I was doing this loving kindness meditation, and the beginning of it was doing a body scan and just feeling deeply into your body, and I just started bawling in the bathtub.  And I didn’t really realize at first where the tears were coming from, and then I realized it’s because I have not even paid attention to my body like that in so long.  Like, to even feel in my body, to feel where tension was, and it was just such an emotional moment, and I just, like, hugged myself in the bath, and I just felt so sad at how I had been treating my body and myself.

Kristin:  Because you’re caring for your son and…

Amber:  Yeah.  I felt like I had this big dream of having this unmedicated vaginal birth, and then I did it, and that was like – that was it.  I didn’t think about it anymore after that.  And I didn’t really, like – I didn’t celebrate that success, you know?

Kristin:  Yeah, your body did it.  You beat the odds.

Amber:  Yeah, like, I just was like, okay, well, on to the next thing.  Now we’re going to heal.  Now we have this long process.  And I didn’t give her credit for all she had done and all she was still doing.  And I just think deeply loving yourself through the healing process and loving your body, loving the fact that your body is making milk and still feeding your child and giving life to your child and healing itself and all of the things it’s simultaneously doing.  I just wish I would have had that realization sooner because I just wonder if my process would have been different if I would have been more in tune and more in love with myself through it.

Kristin:  It’s hard when you’re in the thick of it to really see the light.

Amber:  Yeah.

Kristin:  I’m so glad that you did.

Amber:  Me, too.  It took a little bit, but I always end up coming around at some point with some crazy lessons along the way.  But yeah, I just think my advice is, put as much thought into your healing process and postpartum and the support that you need as you do into your birth that you want because it is a bigger journey than birth is and than pregnancy is, at least it was for me.  And I just wish I would have put more thought into that and, like, just what I needed and what I – I don’t know.  I went into it really a little bit blindly and was blindsided because of that.

Kristin:  Beautiful, yes.  I agree.  And we talk a lot about that in the Becoming course about how postpartum is as important.  So thanks for sharing your story, Amber.  We need to talk about our stories more, so I appreciate you.

Amber:  Yes.  Thank you so much, Kristin.  I really appreciate it.

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.