Kristin Revere and Alexandra Francis discuss postpartum recovery traditions worldwide and the need for holistic postpartum support models like Mama Haven. Alexandra also owns Our Hummingbird.
Hello, hello! This is Kristin Revere with Ask the Doulas, and I am thrilled to bring you Alexandra Francis. Alexandra is the owner and founder of Our Hummingbird, and she has so much information to share with us related to the postpartum revolution. Welcome, Alexandra!
Thank you for having me!
So happy to have you here. I’d love to have you fill our audience in about your personal motherhood journey, as well as why you decided to professionally work with women in the childbearing years.
I’ve given birth to seven children, and the first three children, I gave birth to in the hospital. It was a bit of an antenatal, but I don’t feel that it really prepared me for the birth that was going to happen, and I felt very much at the mercy of the midwives and the whole system and how it runs and so on. And after having an unfortunate experience with the first birth, I had a postpartum hemorrhage. Then I was managed the second and third time. It was really sad for me, because I really wanted a water birth, but I didn’t get one. And with the fourth baby, I went to the hospital, and the thing was, I had such a terrible experience, actually, that I left the hospital in labor. I came home, and a friend of mine said, look, I’ll get you a doula and I’ll pay for her, and then you’ll be all right. You’ll be able to have the baby. That was the first time I’d ever heard that word, doula. And when I called the doula and told her about my experience, she said, oh, yeah, I would honor your birth plan. That’s the first time anyone had ever spoken to me like that. I was like, wow. And she said, why aren’t you having a home birth? And I was like, home birth? What’s that? I’d never been told about a home birth before. And I told her that I was told that I would die. I’m going to bleed to death. And I’m going to die, and the baby’s going to die. That’s why I can’t have this baby at home. I have to be in the hospital. She said, well, contact the community midwives. And I was like, community midwives? Who are they?
They’re the midwives who come out to homebirths. I’d not heard of them at all. And through this experience and finding a likeminded midwife – she honored my birth plan, and she really protected me, which meant that my rights were upheld and the way that I wanted birth, I got to do it. It was so much more beautiful than the other three times. I said, you know what, after this, I’ll never go back to hospital again. I had my fifth baby at home, and it was a water birth.
Exactly as you wanted! And I do agree, no matter where you live, if you don’t know your options, you’re so limited in your choices. Learning about doulas and home birth and community midwives later on changed your path in the future and for that particular birth.
That’s right. And I’m so glad that I did learn about this because it really did change the course of the future of the way that I birthed. After the fifth time – on the fifth time, I’d even learned about HypnoBirthing this time, so I really had the birth down now. At this point, I felt a bit like a pro, you know? And yet all the things that went really beautiful in the birth, they went beautiful because of me and the way that I prepared, and the things that went wrong, they went wrong because of the interference of the midwife. So after that I was like, you know what, I’m not going to have a midwife, if I ever get pregnant again, which I actually thought that I wouldn’t. With my sixth baby, it was just me and the dad, so we had an unassisted birth. I went to Ecuador and gave birth to my daughter there, and that was the first time I found out about the 40 days postpartum. Have you heard about this before?
Yes. Depending on the culture and the traditions – certainly Malaysian and Chinese culture – yes, they take it very seriously of that warming period, caring for the mother, and it’s all about bonding with baby and the village members and family members all help with the newborn care, household tasks, caring for the siblings, in some of the ways that a postpartum doula does.
Yes. Yes! All of that. And with my other babies, I never had that experience. And in actual fact, I remembered with the third child just being so focused on being able to fit into my jeans and get to the supermarket, and I remember pushing the baby in the trolley and he’s newborn and everyone’s looking at the baby like, oh, wow, he’s so small. He’s newborn. And I’m like, yeah. And they were like, wow, you’re such a superwoman. And that was almost the standard that I felt that I had to meet, this superwoman that’s back in her jeans and back to doing all the things that mums do. And I really felt that.
Yes, there’s so much pressure certainly in the US, in the UK. And in other countries, it’s all about mothering the mother and taking that time and family members will fly in and stay for 30 to 40 days and just care for the entire family, but especially the mother.
So yeah, this was just a different experience for me, being in Ecuador and being able to have that time, which I’d never, never had before. It slows everything down. I even got to do elimination communication with my baby, so literally from the time she was born, she was potty training. And potty training, she didn’t really need diapers, and she never did a poo in a nappy ever. It was just this whole brand new experience for me. And I felt almost kind of robbed, you know, with the last babies and the other experiences. I really felt it in my system, just how different that was, having the other children in that way and not getting that much-needed support and time to just really bond with my baby.
Right. So it sounds like that is what led you to Mama Haven and your work there?
It was actually following the birth of the seventh child. It was because I’d still never experienced a doula, but after the sixth baby, that’s when I really started to do the work. I started to be with other women and be in birth and witnessing these babies being born and giving the support to the women and holding their rights, and really, what I feel that my role was is just saying, like, you can. It was hearing the woman, her birth plan, her heart’s desire, the way that she wanted to birth and being like, yeah, you can do that. And I feel that my work is more around helping the mother to really lean into her intuition, to be able to listen to her body and take the cues from her body, to listen to her baby, and to follow that and to trust that and to know that if she feels something, that she can ask for help if she feels that she needs support. She can ask for it. But not to intervene, rather, but more to hold that space and allow the birth to unfold in its own time, ever so gently and naturally. So I got to witness birth in this very beautiful, peaceful, loving way.
Beautiful. So tell us a bit more about Mama Haven.
Okay. So the first time I got to experience a doula for myself was after the seventh baby. When I gave birth to him, the girl came from California. Basically, she did an exchange with me. She came to learn how to be a postpartum doula by being my doula, and I was training her on the job, and that’s how it happened. And with having her, it was like another level because I really got to fully immerse myself in the mother-baby relationship and being in the energy with the baby and just learning all the baby’s cues. It’s similar to like before, you learn like a telepathy with the baby. I got that through the elimination communication, but this time, it was just by being so present, by having all of my needs met. She fed me. I taught her how to massage my body, showed her where aches and pains were. I had a slight labial graze, so I taught her how to treat that and to care for it and how to wrap me and do all these things. It was just out of this world, really. I just got to look at the baby, be with him. I only had to think about breastfeeding. I didn’t have to think about anything else. She really had it covered.
And it was from this experience, having such a deep immersion with my own baby that actually when the end of the 40 days came, I really felt like, oh, my word, we’ve been in such a protective bubble that I felt almost like the world was such a harsh place for my son, and I wasn’t ready to break out of the 40 days. I actually ended up having another month, not with a doula, but just me and the baby, and I lived in a house with another woman who’d also just had a baby, so we were both postpartum together. I was a little bit ahead of her. So we were able to support each other and be there for each other, eat together, and things like that, and it was just really beautiful.
And through having that experience, I felt like all moms should be able to have this if they so choose. I mean, a lot of moms don’t even know. They don’t even know that it’s an option, especially here in the UK. Most of the girls who are going to the hospital even today, their focus is, when can I go home, and then going to the local shopping center. And I find that so bizarre, that that was my experience in 2001, and it’s still the mentality in this country today. Unless you’re, say, from a Muslim family or where the family members come around, like you said, and really get around the woman and support her and hold her in those 40 days, but the culture in Britain is just not there yet. So there has to be some work done first and foremost to raise the awareness to allow moms to know what can be possible, to help them to see how beneficial it is for them just to slow it down.
And in England, there’s massive issues around breastfeeding, for example. And women might try, and if they don’t get it as quick as they need to be able to leave hospital, they’re almost prompted to give formula. It’s like, okay, if I give the child the bottle, then I can get out and tick that box off. So it takes time sometimes, doesn’t it? You’ve just got to almost like stop and be still and be relaxed and let it happen. But if you feel stressed and you’re trying to think about forcing it to happen, or you think, oh, what’s wrong with me? What’s wrong with my nipples? What’s wrong with my baby? It can kind of end up with a bit of a downward spiral, and that can be impacted a lot by the stress and whatnot.
So first and foremost, to just raise the awareness, to let moms know that they can slow down. The Mama Haven, really what it’s doing is giving moms an opportunity to have a home. In the Mama Haven home, the woman will have care that’s wraparound, so she’d have care 24/7, just the way that I did. And the women want to train how to become postpartum doulas, so what better way to have the training than to be in the Mama Haven? The students can be there, alongside the mamas, and they can then observe the mamas. They can talk and get to know them and then see what their needs are and then understand to meet the needs when they emerge. And then I can be there to offer that supervision and the guidance, but it’s more like it can happen quietly and organically through building those relationships and really, like I said, slowing everything down and observing.
So the plan is to be able to cook and give meals to these women, so the food is very nutrient-dense, what the mother may be calling for at that time, to build the good supply of breastmilk and keep the mom feeling well-fed and feeling good and energized. Then she can also rest. Then she can have her emotional needs met because we can be there to listen. I found that instrumental, actually. That was a huge part of it, just for myself, processing my birth and some of the things around being alone in a foreign country and having other family members around me at that time, I got to just cry about it. She’d just hold the space and let that happen and I didn’t feel judged or anything. And it was okay. Feelings come up and they go, and we don’t necessarily have to make more about it. It’s just, this is it. This is natural. It’s a process. We just allow for that process to unfold. So this is another big thing that would be on hand for those mothers. Then the hands-on care, like the massages and the wrapping and things like that, as and where the mother needs. There’ll be people on hand to do that right around the clock, to provide that care and give that nourishment.
So are you doing the Bengkung method, or what is your preferring wrapping method?
I do the belly binding with massage and the Rebozo, actually, the Mexican one. I got to learn this ceremony called the closing of the bones.
Yes, I learned that as well. I took a training, a Zulu doula training and learned that method, but I’ve also been trained in Bengkung belly binding, the Malaysian way.
Okay, I’ve not done the Malaysian one. I did the other one, and it’s so good, isn’t it, to be able to hold the woman. Have you had it done to yourself as well?
Yes, during the training. It was amazing. I was not postpartum, though.
Yeah, so when you are postpartum, in that area – I mean, I can speak for experience that it feels vulnerable, almost. It almost feels like the top half of my body is going to fall off of the bottom half of my body. It’s a really weird sensation. And somehow, when you get wrapped, it’s like it keeps you together, you know? It holds you up.
Agreed, because your organs are going back into place or shifting after you deliver. It makes complete sense. And again, going from that warm state to a cold state and the benefits of warming foods and nutrient dense foods, as you mentioned, and just slowing things down and that care. It’s so important.
I even offer the closing bones ceremonies to women, not necessarily in their 40 days postpartum, and I’ve found that they’re instrumental for women literally at any time in their life. I did one for mother and daughter. They were side by side. And the daughter was 30-something years old, and the mother received her first closing bones ceremony, and the daughter received one. For her, it was closing the dependence that the mother had on her and closing that down, opening her up to be able to receive her own children.
Beautiful!
It was so powerful.
It’s such important work. You are definitely changing the community. So you have one location in the UK; is that correct?
The plan is to get the location. At the moment, the Mama Haven is in its seed stages. The idea is there. I’ve been doing a fundraiser because I identified a property that I want to buy that’s perfectly suitable, beautiful, in such a quiet space, quiet surroundings to honor the privacy of the woman. It’s got seven bedrooms, beautiful surroundings. I saw this place and I was like, this is perfect to have this Mama Haven here. So I want to establish the first one, actually, in the UK, and I’ve been talking to a lot of people that I’ve been connected to because a lot of my work, it’s actually been in other places. This will be the first thing that I actually will do in the UK, and most of my work has been across other continents. But yes, once we’ve got this one here, there’s other women that would want to put them in their areas, so I see the bigger picture of this is that there’d be a Mama Haven literally all over the world, anywhere and everywhere.
Almost like a franchise, but a bit different. Their own havens, that they would rely on your direction. Beautiful! I am so impressed with the work you’re doing and seeing, since you traveled the world, seeing that there’s more of a need in the UK, and so starting that first haven there makes complete sense.
There is a huge need here.
So fill us in on your funding campaign and how our listeners can connect with you. I’m also curious about how you might handle travelers. What if US citizens want to come during not their immediate postpartum, but later on to get care, for example, once they’re able to travel?
Yes. So what I want to do initially is open the one in the UK and make it available so that actually people can come from anywhere. If somebody’s birthing in the UK, for example, they can be there after the birth and get postpartum care, but the students can come from anywhere in the world. So they can come from the US, and that’s why it’s great to have it as a residential so that the student can come. They can be held in the space, as well. Then they’ve got a skill. They can take that back to where they’re from, and they can begin by giving that service to women, maybe in their own homes, but maybe there’s women there that also want to set up their own Mama Haven. So then I would support them to be able to set up the Mama Haven at their place and just take the training there and be on hand to do the training, make sure it’s all set up and managed, and then I would move away and let that one run by itself. That’s how I would do it.
Perfect. I love the plan. So are the donations directed through your primary website, Our Hummingbird? Or how can our listeners or potential students get involved?
Yeah, they can get involved directly through the website. The page is actually being created as we speak, so I hope by the end of this week, the weekend, it should be finished. I have a giving page as well where people can make donations. So what I’m looking at doing initially is raising, like, 5,000 because once you raise 5,000, you can open a charity. And then I could become a charity, and that way, I can be open to other types of donations, like bigger donations, and I can apply for funding from places and things like that because then what I want to do is create sustainability. So people that want to come but might not be able to afford to pay for something like this, they can still come. Students that want to come, they really have a passion; they have a desire to learn – they could get a scholarship, for example. Also, the mothers that run the Mama Havens, they would have to be residential, so they live on the site. It gives that person security, and then they are able to run a business, so what they’re able to do is create wealth for themselves and their own families because that’s something that I’ve found because I’ve been in different parts of the world and I’ve got my kids and I take my kids to different countries and stuff like that. It’s almost a bit all over the place, but being rooted and being in one place means that actually I can build that wealth, and then that’s something that I can pass on to my children. If I do it for me, I can also do it for other people, whereas when I was doing the work that I was doing because it was just a service, like I just felt like women should have it regardless of whether they should pay or not, it was almost like a call to humanity, a basic human right. I just did it. I did it out of the goodness of my heart, so it was not something that I created a business out of or made anything from. And then I’m like, oh, that was a bit silly, because really, what you want to be doing is if you set yourself up in a business way and you create wealth for yourself and your family, then you’re able to share that wealth so there’s an economy where other mothers can come in and you’re giving them a system where they can also create income and wealth for themselves and their families, as well, and that’s a far better system and a far better blueprint to be doing a business like this than the way that I was doing it before.
Right, giving your work away for free and serving people because it’s in your heart. But yes, we’re able to give back much more substantially if we are receiving income and our families are able to benefit when we’re away if we’re, again, getting paid for the work that we do.
That’s right.
So, Alexandra, you are also on social media. I know Our Hummingbird is your primary. It sounds like you might have another page coming up as well?
On the Our Hummingbird website, the page will go under there, so just by having the link, it will come onside. And I do have an Instagram and things like that, but it’s something I’ve not been so strong on in the social media world because I’ve been doing the work face to face and hands on. I really didn’t have time to build that type of following, and it didn’t feel – it almost didn’t feel right for me, if I’m doing the work and then all of a sudden I have to take out my phone to take pictures to post. It just kind of didn’t work. So I never got that bit down, but I’m learning right now, and I’m like, okay, I need to be a bit more active in there, as well. So I’m going to do my best to also post and things like that and keep that going. But the best way, I feel, that people can really keep in touch with me and get involved with Mama Haven and be a part of it – because I think it’s quite groundbreaking. It will be a flagship project. So for people to stay close to that, I’d use the www.ourhummingbird.com website.
Thank you! Any final tips for our listeners, Alexandra?
Final tips: I would say arm yourself with as much information as you can because knowledge is power, and find yourself doulas and birth workers in your local community. Meet them, get to know them, and the ones that you really gel with, have them help and support you because having help and support and advocacy and love and care during a very powerful but also very vulnerable time in your life is – well, there’s nothing that really compares to it.
Agreed! Thank you so much! It was lovely to chat with you.
IMPORTANT LINKS